<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><?xml-stylesheet href="http://www.blogger.com/styles/atom.css" type="text/css"?><feed xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:openSearch='http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearchrss/1.0/' xmlns:georss='http://www.georss.org/georss' xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173</id><updated>2011-10-31T22:51:18.781-04:00</updated><category term='ethics'/><category term='existence of God'/><category term='Bible contradictions'/><category term='God&apos;s nature'/><category term='combat'/><category term='emergent'/><category term='presuppositionalism'/><category term='gospel'/><category term='covenant theology'/><category term='books'/><category term='heaven'/><category term='common grace'/><category term='death'/><category term='Darwinism'/><category term='justification'/><category term='theology'/><category term='abortion'/><category term='atonement'/><category term='hell'/><category term='idolatry'/><category term='sermons'/><category term='film criticism'/><category term='truth'/><category term='divine decree'/><category term='missions'/><category term='worship'/><category term='compatibilism'/><category term='image of God'/><category term='link'/><category term='pop culture'/><category term='exegesis'/><category term='suffering'/><category term='millennialism'/><category term='prayer'/><category term='humor'/><category term='sin'/><category term='contemporary issues'/><category term='TAG'/><category term='Islam'/><category term='baptism'/><category term='racism'/><category term='reprobation'/><category term='reflections'/><category term='counseling'/><category term='God&apos;s love'/><category term='eschatology'/><category term='politics'/><category term='law and gospel'/><category term='anti-intellectualism'/><category term='music'/><category term='atheism'/><category term='biblical theology'/><category term='grief'/><category term='sovereignty-responsibility'/><category term='determinism'/><category term='terrorism'/><category term='Calvinism'/><category term='Scripture'/><category term='Arminianism'/><category term='hermeneutics'/><category term='New Covenant Theology'/><category term='economics'/><category term='theodicy'/><category term='Christ'/><category term='apologetic methodology'/><category term='church and state'/><category term='suicide'/><category term='critcism'/><category term='poetry'/><category term='apologetics'/><category term='quotes'/><category term='two natures'/><category term='film recommendations'/><category term='Haiti'/><category term='evangelism'/><title type='text'>Zao Thanatoo</title><subtitle type='html'>For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify (THANATOO) the deeds of the body, you shall live (ZAO). Romans 8:13</subtitle><link rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default?max-results=100'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/'/><link rel='hub' href='http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/'/><link rel='next' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default?start-index=101&amp;max-results=100'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><generator version='7.00' uri='http://www.blogger.com'>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>115</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>100</openSearch:itemsPerPage><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-4632435705514066368</id><published>2011-01-25T21:07:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2011-01-25T21:07:51.500-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='theodicy'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='critcism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='presuppositionalism'/><title type='text'>A Final Response to Mitch Leblanc on the Argument from Horrific Suffering</title><content type='html'>&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;span style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;I will provide a brief rebuttal to Mitch’s response and grant him the last word in this discussion, if he would like to have it. I’ll put them under different headings to attempt to clarify the issues somewhat, with a quote from Mitch and my response.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Foundationalism&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Mitch:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/strong&gt;“I have noticed a general trend amongst presuppositionalists to not only assume a sort of foundationalist epistemology, but to even assume others are foundationalists! How can I have properly basic beliefs or ultimate presuppositions if I think foundationalism is false? This isn’t an immediately relevant thought, but it’s interesting enough to flag.”&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Moi:&lt;/strong&gt;&amp;nbsp;One can be an anti-foundationalist and still have properly basic beliefs. Mitch may want to familiarize himself with Reformed epistemology and foundherentism in this regard, at least. Both are anti-foundationalist and maintain properly basic beliefs. Maybe Mitch didn’t know this or he doesn’t think it’s pertinent since he doesn’t subscribe to either epistemology. Of course, he offered no alternative, so he’s fallen back on giving biographical information rather than philosophical argumentation. At the risk of seeming brusque, who cares&amp;nbsp;&lt;em style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: italic; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;that&amp;nbsp;&lt;/em&gt;Mitch thinks foundationalism is false? Philosophers only care about&amp;nbsp;&lt;em style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: italic; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;why&lt;/em&gt;. I agree with Mitch that his thought is irrelevant in this case.&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Question-Begging&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Mitch:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;“&lt;/strong&gt;If it’s the case that assuming that God does not exist in order to argue that he does is self-contradictory there is a real problem for argumentation in general, as assuming the negation of some proposition to prove that proposition is simply what is meant by “proof via contradiction” or&amp;nbsp;&lt;em style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: italic; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;reductio ad absurdum&amp;nbsp;&lt;/em&gt;and it would be highly controversial for Zao to claim that instances of&amp;nbsp;&lt;em style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: italic; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;reductio&lt;/em&gt;&amp;nbsp;are self-contradictory, yet that seems to be his suggestion.”&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Moi:&lt;/strong&gt;&amp;nbsp;I apologize for my lack of clarity here. Assuming ~A in order to prove A is self-contradictory, excluding cases of proof by contradiction. I thought this would have gone without saying, but that appears to be a faulty assumption on my part. However, I don’t see its relevance to the larger discussion, unless Mitch wants to argue that only a proof by contradiction would be a valid way of responding to the Argument from HS. But he hasn’t argued for that and I won’t put words into his mouth.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Mitch:&lt;/strong&gt;&amp;nbsp;“Further, it’s not clear why one need either assume that God exists or that she (sic) does not in analyzing the argument. This seems to entail that nobody who is agnostic with regards to the existence of God could ever analyze the argument, or that agnostics are committed to the claim that God does not exist, which is false. He appears to cite the “Law of Excluded Middle” as justification for this claim, but this seems confused. It may be the case that “God exists” is either true or false but this does not entail that one has to regard it as so.”&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Moi:&lt;/strong&gt;&amp;nbsp;This is a red herring. Unless Mitch would like to defend agnosticism I suggest he keep his comments relevant to the discussion at hand. Otherwise, what third truth category does Mitch propose with reference to the agnostic, since he asserts that one does not have to regard a truth claim as true or false? If he’s going to treat agnosticism as an assertion of ignorance, then this is just more biographical information in lieu of philosophical argumentation (taken from somebody else’s hypothetical biography no less, since Mitch is not an agnostic, last I checked).&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Mitch has been given argumentation throughout his discussions with Choosing Hats fellas to the effect that the nature of the question of the existence of the Christian God is so comprehensive that one must epistemically presuppose His existence as true or false in every arena, regardless of one’s psychological status with reference to the question. (See Chris’ recent&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="http://www.choosinghats.com/?p=1642" style="border-bottom-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; color: #3a6999; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; outline-color: initial; outline-style: none; outline-width: initial; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;post on the non-neutrality principle&lt;/a&gt;.) He has so far not responded substantially to me in that regard (which is his right); however, until he does responses like “…it’s not clear why one need either assume that God exists or that she (sic) does not in analyzing the argument” will seem disingenuous at best, obfuscatory at worst.&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Straw Man&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Mitch:&lt;/strong&gt;&amp;nbsp;“Here, unfortunately, Zao misconstrues the argument. The finite persons who “ever more fully experience the reality of God” are not people living life&amp;nbsp;&lt;em style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: italic; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;simpliciter.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/em&gt;They are the people who believe they are in a mutually interactive relationship with God of the sort to which theists commonly attest. This is a stipulative definition and I could have perhaps made it clearer, but this is one example of why I dislike long discussions pertaining to a brief survey article of some argument, there are things which get left out or overlooked that aren’t so left out or overlooked in the primary source. But, moving on, Zao is also mistaken about what it means to “realize one’s deepest good.” If you note premise (1) it’s explicitly defining what it means to realize one’s deepest good, and it means to ever more fully experience the reality of God. The rest of Zao’s response in its current form can be overlooked since it’s simply not relevant. Zao has, perhaps unintentionally, strawmanned the argument from Horrific Suffering.”&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;&lt;strong style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;Moi:&lt;/strong&gt;&amp;nbsp;As I admitted, I haven’t read the primary source document for the argument and I agree that Mitch’s stipulative definition might have been clearer (though, as I said before, I think it was a good start). Recognize that I’ve simply stipulated a clearer definition of my own. If Mitch doesn’t like my stipulative definition as much as he likes his stipulative definition, again, so what? He will need to argue for his definition over against mine. Recognize also that my definition is taken from the Bible; if Mitch’s definition doesn’t take this into account, then the Argument from Horrific Suffering was never intended to target the Christian God and I see no point in taking further issue with it if that is, in fact, the case.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;As a brief further comment in this respect, Mitch has asserted that the argument proves that no “perfect being”-type God exists, but this assertion rests on a whole mountain of argumentation regarding what is and is not a perfect being which has not been discussed. Mitch would like to sidestep all of this by an appeal to his intuitions and inferences about what a perfect being would be. I would simply posit the questions: Do you really think that you, as an imperfect finite being, can accurately infer the nature of a perfect being? Based on what? Your imperfect, finite thoughts and feelings? Really?&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"&gt;I would posit that such knowledge is impossible apart from the self-revelation of a “perfect being.”&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-4632435705514066368?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/4632435705514066368/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2011/01/final-response-to-mitch-leblanc-on.html#comment-form' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/4632435705514066368'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/4632435705514066368'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2011/01/final-response-to-mitch-leblanc-on.html' title='A Final Response to Mitch Leblanc on the Argument from Horrific Suffering'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-8468386477551997310</id><published>2011-01-13T18:07:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2011-01-13T18:07:48.476-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='theodicy'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='atheism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='critcism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='suffering'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='presuppositionalism'/><title type='text'>Antitheistic Argument from Horrific Suffering</title><content type='html'>&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Chris Bolt and Mitch Leblanc have been carrying on a discussion surrounding J. L. Schellenberg’s &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://urbanphilosophy.net/philosophy/the-argument-from-horrific-suffering-for-the-non-existence-of-god/"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px color: #589d96; text-decoration: underline;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Antitheistic Argument from Horrors&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;.&amp;nbsp; The full exchange (to date) is linked &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.choosinghats.com/?p=1617"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px color: #589d96; text-decoration: underline;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;here&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;.&amp;nbsp; As I’m occasionally wont, I’d like to throw my hat in the ring... now which hat will I choose…&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The objective fact of suicide alone would appear to give some validity to Schellenberg’s subject-based definition of Horrific Suffering (HS):&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;“Horrific Suffering (def.) = that most awe-full form of suffering that gives the victim and/or the perpetrator a&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;prima facie&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; reason to think that his or her life is not worth living.”&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Schellenberg’s argument:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(1) Necessarily, if God exists, finite persons who ever more fully experience the reality of God realize their deepest good.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(2)&amp;nbsp;Necessarily, if God exists, the prevention of horrific suffering does not prevent there being finite persons who ever more fully experience the reality of God.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(3)&amp;nbsp;Necessarily, if God exists, the prevention of horrific suffering does not prevent there being finite persons who realize their deepest good. (from 1, 2)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(4)&amp;nbsp;Necessarily, if God exists, there is horrific suffering only if its prevention would prevent there being finite persons who realize their deepest good.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(5)&amp;nbsp;Necessarily, if God exists, there is no horrific suffering. (from 3, 4)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(6)&amp;nbsp;There is horrific suffering.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(7)&amp;nbsp;God does not exist (from 5, 6)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Notice the strong modal claims of the first five premises (i.e. “Necessarily, if God exists…).&amp;nbsp; Admittedly, I have not read Schellenberg’s chapter as of yet, but I would be interested in seeing his argumentation establishing the necessity of these premises.&amp;nbsp; At the very least it would give us a sketch of the sort of theology being targeted by the argument (while also giving us more than the mere assertion of necessity).&amp;nbsp; Also, if the necessity of any of the premises can be reasonably denied then the entire argument is overturned.&amp;nbsp; However, this is only a formal criticism and I’d rather respond more substantially.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;It’s difficult to evaluate what is intended by the phrase taken from the first premise: “Finite persons who ever more fully experience the reality of God realize their deepest good.”&amp;nbsp; Mitch has offered his own interpretation for consideration:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;“To experience the reality of God, in the context of this argument, is to be in a personal relationship with the creator of the cosmos. A relationship of the type theists mention often. It is a being as aware of the existence of God as a child is aware of his or her loving mother. That such an experience occurs in the ‘ever more fully’ sense is to simply point out that given the infinite complexity of God, there will always be more about God for some finite human person to know. That is, if God exists and is as awesome as theists often claim, it is difficult to see how any finite human person can exhaust the things there are to know about God, or exhaust the feelings there are to be had about God, or exhaust the myriad of forms a personal relationship with her (sic) might take. It is indeed doubtful that these things can be exhausted in the context of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;human-to-human&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; relationships, let alone &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;human-to-divine&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; relationships. &amp;nbsp;Indeed such an experience of God’s reality might manifest itself in different ways to different persons; perhaps we should even &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;expect &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;such a thing given God’s infinite resourcefulness, creativity, and the existence of unique individuals…&amp;nbsp; I am speaking here of, in many ways, an experience of God that unfolds throughout eternity and is such that, given God’s infinite resourcefulness and creativity, the fruits of which are inexhaustible by the finite human person.”&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;I like this attempt at definition.&amp;nbsp; I appreciate an atheist attempting to give a definition which reflects his reading of various theistic claims.&amp;nbsp; At several points I think it’s quite insightful.&amp;nbsp; I particularly like this part: “It is indeed doubtful that these things can be exhausted in the context of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;human-to-human&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; relationships, let alone &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;human-to-divine&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; relationships. &amp;nbsp;Indeed such an experience of God’s reality might manifest itself in different ways to different persons; perhaps we should even &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;expect &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;such a thing given God’s infinite resourcefulness, creativity, and the existence of unique individuals.”&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;I’ll be referring back to this section of Mitch’s definition shortly, when I attempt to present what I contend is a more biblically faithful way of responding to Schellenberg’s argument.&amp;nbsp; However, Mitch has already raised the objection that the use of Scripture in this regard is question-begging:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;“(Schellenberg’s) argument, however, has as its conclusion that there is no God, so Chris must be careful not to beg the question against the argument by reasoning in a manner that assumes the conclusion false, to show the conclusion false.”&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;It seems appropriate, then, to respond to this objection before presenting my case.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Mitch contends that one must not assume that God exists (A) in order to disprove the above conclusion that God does not exist (~A).&amp;nbsp; This, he asserts, is question-begging.&amp;nbsp; However, for anyone wishing to criticize the conclusion, the alternative is to assume that God does not exist in order to argue that he does.&amp;nbsp; This is self-contradictory.&amp;nbsp; We must either assume God exists or God does not exist (A or ~A, Excluded Middle) in presenting our reasoning.&amp;nbsp; But assuming ~A to prove A is self-contradictory and assuming A to prove ~~A Mitch asserts is question-begging. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;What options remain for the Christian theist? &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;ol style="list-style-type: decimal;"&gt;&lt;li style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;We can grant that Schellenberg’s argument is completely unassailable; but this entails atheism.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;We can reject the logical principle of the excluded middle; but this leaves us with many-valued, non-classical logics and the host of truth gap/glut issues surrounding that option. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;We can tie ourselves in philosophical knots attempting to assume ~A in order to prove A. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;We can reject Mitch’s assertion that assuming A in order to prove ~~A is question-begging in this instance.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;I choose (4) for a number of reasons.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/03/second-response-to-mitch-leblanc.html"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px color: #589d96; text-decoration: underline;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;I’ve given Mitch one reason for this in the past&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; (see point 1 under “Circular reasoning and a Euthyphro dilemma analog”), namely that there is an equal ultimacy to the criticism; given the comprehensive nature of the question of the Christian God’s existence, Schellenberg’s argument either assumes A or ~A in an effort at proving ~A.&amp;nbsp; But lest Mitch think this is merely a &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;tu quoque &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;response, I’m attempting to elevate the conversation by recognizing the epistemic role which properly basic beliefs or ultimate presuppositions (call them what you like) play in dealing with issues such as the problem of horrific suffering. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;As R. M. Chisholm recognized in his &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Theory of Knowledge&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; the “problem of the criterion” (i.e. the relation of metaphysics and epistemology, “What do we know?” and “What are the criteria for knowing?”), as he put it, is the interdependence of metaphysics and epistemology.&amp;nbsp; The question of “what do we know” (e.g. Does God exist?) cannot be answered in isolation from the question “what are the criteria for knowing” (e.g. How do we know God exists?) and vice versa.&amp;nbsp; As Chisholm states in &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Problem of Criterion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, “What few philosophers have had the courage to recognize is this: we can deal with the problem only by begging the question.&amp;nbsp; It seems to me that, if we do not recognize this fact, as we should, then it is unseemly for us to try to pretend that it isn’t so.” (p. 37)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;So I “courageously” beg the question in favor of Christian theism and Mitch unadmittingly begs the question in favor of antitheism.&amp;nbsp; What’s to be done to bridge this gap?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Well, until Mitch recognizes this to be the nature of the case he will probably continue to beg ultimate questions while accusing various theists of begging the same questions; and we’ll occasionally remind him about it.&amp;nbsp; If Mitch does decide to elevate the discussion, we’ll be here waiting.&amp;nbsp; Until then, he’s begging the question. &lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;:)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Another alternative would be to present a transcendental argument of some kind, attempting to demonstrate that even a skeptic’s skepticism presupposes the existence of God or something to that effect.&amp;nbsp; For examples, email Chris Bolt. &lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;:)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;With that issue set to one side, I’d like to briefly propose (like a “good Calvinist”) that the biblical doctrine of unconditional election presents an expansion of the definition given by Mitch above, which makes horrific suffering compatible with God’s existence.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(Note: I love little puns like “good Calvinist,” i.e. in order to be a Calvinist one must believe all people are totally depraved morally, so there are only “totally depraved Calvinists,” but if Chris is a consistent Calvinist then he might be described as “good” in that sense.&amp;nbsp; Good pun, Mitch.)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;In Premise 1 we are told “Necessarily, if God exists, finite persons who ever more fully experience the reality of God realize their deepest good.”&amp;nbsp; Let’s break this down quickly for definitional purposes.&amp;nbsp; We’ll take “finite persons” to be, well, finite persons.&amp;nbsp; Finite persons who “ever more fully experience the reality of God” are people living life.&amp;nbsp; Every day every finite person existing ever more fully experiences the reality of God in various ways and to varying degrees, but every aspect of life is an experience of God in one way or another.&amp;nbsp; “Realizing their deepest good” means simply that they glorify God; and one may glorify God through either salvation or judgment.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;So while Mitch’s definition is good, it is incomplete, as he stated: “…Indeed such an experience of God’s reality might manifest itself in different ways to different persons.”&amp;nbsp; Indeed, some people may realize their “deepest good” (glorifying God) through horrific suffering under the judgment of God for their sins.&amp;nbsp; So, given the above definitions, Premise 2 is false since certain persons glorify God most fully by suffering horrifically under judgment for their sins; and preventing that category of people from suffering would prevent them from “realizing their deepest good.”&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 5.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;In fact, it is through the horrific suffering of Jesus Christ that finite persons realize their deepest good by glorifying God through salvation rather than judgment.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-8468386477551997310?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/8468386477551997310/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2011/01/antitheistic-argument-from-horrific.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/8468386477551997310'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/8468386477551997310'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2011/01/antitheistic-argument-from-horrific.html' title='Antitheistic Argument from Horrific Suffering'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-8175767241771932191</id><published>2011-01-02T22:15:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2011-01-02T22:15:09.870-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='atheism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='critcism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='apologetics'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='presuppositionalism'/><title type='text'>A Case Study in Apostasy</title><content type='html'>&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;I had planned to write a chapter-by-chapter critical review of prominent atheist John Loftus’ book, &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Why I Am an Atheist&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;; however, upon reading the book I believed that such an analysis was overkill and unnecessary in refuting Loftus’ claims.&amp;nbsp; Providentially, shortly after I finished reading Loftus’ three books the fellas over at Triablogue released their collaboration, &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2010/07/infidel-delusion.html"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px color: #000099; text-decoration: underline;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Infidel Delusion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;,&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; in response to Loftus, et al.&amp;nbsp; So I thought my little collection of posts might just be blogospheric white noise in the flurry of responses exchanged.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;So I reworked the bit that I had written in response to Loftus as a brief case study in apostasy, viewed from an apologetic perspective.&amp;nbsp; I hope that some might find it useful in recognizing and avoiding some of the pitfalls which may lead to apostasy.&amp;nbsp; Some may object that doing a case study in apostasy is too critical or harsh.&amp;nbsp; They would prefer to speak merely in categories or generalities about such issues.&amp;nbsp; However, since he believes this chapter contains salient facts related to his cumulative case argument against Christianity, Loftus opens up his experience for critical analysis, which I will cautiously provide. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Ad hominem&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;fallacies will be consciously avoided, since the truth value of Loftus' argumentation should be considered independently from his biographical data.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;They were sad chapters to read, in many ways and for many reasons.&amp;nbsp; It's always sad to read of the failures of others.&amp;nbsp; And these chapters were full of failures of many kinds.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus begins the book with a challenge for Christians: "Anyway, Christian, for once in your life, you need to seriously examine your faith.&amp;nbsp; By virtue of the fact that your faith is something you prefer to be true, you should subject it to critical analysis at least once in your life.&amp;nbsp; If you laid aside the fact that you think Christianity is true and merely asked yourself if you prefer that it's true, you'll see quite plainly that you do.&amp;nbsp; How do you know you don't believe what you prefer to be true?" (12)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;In the above quote, take out the words "Christian/ity" and replace it with "atheist/atheism."&amp;nbsp; It makes equal sense.&amp;nbsp; This is what's called a &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;double-edged criticism.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; There's no reason to grant presumptively that any given instance of atheism involves more examination than any given instance of Christianity; this is the author simply projecting his own experience onto his audience.&amp;nbsp; If the criticism that "beliefs are based on preference" applies to Christianity, it applies equally to atheism, polytheism and fern worship.&amp;nbsp; Either Loftus' criticism above is valid and he&amp;nbsp;is an atheist because he prefers to believe&amp;nbsp;atheism is true or he's guilty of granting atheism a special status that he doesn't grant to Christianity without providing any argumentation supporting that position.&amp;nbsp; This is tendentious&amp;nbsp;from the outset; however, no apologist familiar with the non-neutrality principle of covenantal&amp;nbsp;apologetics&amp;nbsp;should be surprised by this (for those unfamiliar read &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://proginosko.com/docs/FrameFestschriftEssay.pdf"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px color: #000099; text-decoration: underline;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;this&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, particularly pp. 447-448).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The problem is not that Loftus is not neutral in his statements; it's that he thinks he is and he purports to be while he is not.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;This is especially&amp;nbsp;worth noting since many of his readers&amp;nbsp;(regardless of their varied theistic commitments)&amp;nbsp;will tend to grant that neutrality is possible, even desirable at times, and that many of Loftus' statements exemplify such neutrality.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;But neutrality is impossible;&amp;nbsp;if Christ is Lord of all, nothing is neutral.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;"...I consider part 1, "The Basis for My Control Beliefs," to be the most significant part of my whole case...&amp;nbsp; But since &lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;my skeptical control beliefs don't tell me what to think about the specific evidence itself&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, I'll also examine the biblical evidence in part 2, and then conclude with what I believe today in part 3." (emphasis added, 12)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;It seems like it should be&amp;nbsp;too early in the book for the author to have made such a complete blunder.&amp;nbsp; Loftus asserts that his "skeptical control beliefs don't tell (him)&amp;nbsp;what to think about the specific evidence itself,"&amp;nbsp;essentially stating that his &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;control beliefs&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; don't &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;control his beliefs&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; about&amp;nbsp;evidence.&amp;nbsp; Either the beliefs control or they don't.&amp;nbsp; This is&amp;nbsp;flagrantly self-contradictory and demonstrates a deep lack of epistemological self-consciousness.&amp;nbsp; This is further exemplified by simply&amp;nbsp;citing the author's own definition of&amp;nbsp;"control beliefs" given later in the book:&amp;nbsp;"&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Control beliefs are those beliefs that control how we view the evidence&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;..&amp;nbsp; Since &lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;how we each look at the evidence is controlled to a large degree by certain control beliefs of ours&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, I want to know how to justify those control beliefs themselves." (emphasis added, 59)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;This error reflects the same problem of non-neutrality mentioned above.&amp;nbsp; Loftus wishes to present himself as objective and neutral regarding the biblical evidence he surveys in part 2 of the book, but this contradicts his stated recognition that control beliefs &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;exert control&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; over other beliefs.&amp;nbsp; Skeptical control beliefs control his view of the biblical evidence; to admit this is to admit that part 2 of the book is entirely question-begging (and little worth reading, therefore).&amp;nbsp; It's either dishonest or naive to recognize the role "control beliefs" or presuppositions play in examining evidence, then to&amp;nbsp;declare the opposite when it is convenient for one's own position.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus then gives us his &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;bona fides &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;as a Christian apologist, having (among other things) earned a Th.M. under William Lane Craig at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in '85.&amp;nbsp; "I was a Christian apologist with the equivalent of a PhD degree in the philosophy of religion, set for the express purpose of defending Christianity from intellectual attacks.&amp;nbsp; I was not afraid of any idea because I was convinced that Christianity was true and could withstand all attacks." (13)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The reader should recognize that Loftus failed in his "express purpose of defending Christianity from intellectual attacks," and is in&amp;nbsp;this very significant respect nothing like "us."&amp;nbsp; He was "convinced that Christianity was true"... until he wasn't.&amp;nbsp; He proved that, in fact, he wasn't just like "us," and no Christian should be tricked by such attempts at short-circuiting our critical thinking with biographical narratives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus imports many biographical&amp;nbsp;tidbits into his argumentation, attempting subversive persuasion based on his superficial once-Christian credentials.&amp;nbsp; How can I call a Th.M from TEDS a superficial mark of Christianity?&amp;nbsp; Well, quite easily, actually, since, the &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;most significant Christian credential is persevering faith&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, which Loftus never had, and his Christian readers would do well to keep that in mind.&amp;nbsp; "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." (1 Jn 2:19)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus was "a problem teenager" (20), who came to Christianity through a Pentecostal ministry in Ft. Wayne, IN, where his life was "radically changed" (20).&amp;nbsp; Shortly thereafter he was introduced to the evidentialism of Josh McDowell's&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Evidence That Demands a Verdict&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, Hal Lindsey's predictive dispensational premillennialism, the pragmatistic presuppositionalism of Francis Schaeffer, and the ubiquitous works of C.S. Lewis. &amp;nbsp;Sounds like a fairly standard 20th century evangelical experience. &amp;nbsp;Loftus is briefly critical of each author and footnotes various criticisms he believes conclusively demonstrate problems with each. &amp;nbsp;Apart from the varied merits (or lack of merits, as would apply) of each theologian mentioned, one could be critical of each and still remain a Christian. &amp;nbsp;In fact, I would recommend it. &amp;nbsp;Of those mentioned, I have benefited most from Schaeffer's work, though I do recognize the validity of Thomas V. Morris' criticisms (as cited by Loftus). &amp;nbsp;So much the worse for Schaeffer's particular methodology and so much the better for mine.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus wants to look at some key initial questions: "...what bias or presumption is the correct one when approaching the Christian faith? &amp;nbsp;None of us sets out to study Christianity without some bias one way or another." (22)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;This is a valid and important question for us all, and it appears to recognize the nature of the antithesis mentioned above. &amp;nbsp;Briefly, I will propose that there are only two options: one will approach Christianity either presuming its claims to be true or false. &amp;nbsp;This sounds a bit outlandish at first, doesn’t it?&amp;nbsp; Can’t someone approach Christianity as &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;possibly&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; true or false?&amp;nbsp; This is a very reasonable question. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;There is no third option&amp;nbsp;as the result of the all-encompassing nature of the claims of Christianity. &amp;nbsp;The&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;de jure&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;question is not independent of the&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;de facto&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;question. &amp;nbsp;To assume that one is "objectively" judging the claims of Christianity is to assume an autonomy from Christ which contradicts Christianity; meaning that one is assuming that Christianity is false in order to conclude that it is false.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;But, if this is the case, musn’t the Christian be guilty of fallacious circular reasoning in assuming the truth of Christianity?&amp;nbsp; For brevity’s sake, I’ll answer this question with an argument from the lesser to the greater by analogy. &amp;nbsp;Imagine you are called upon to prove the existence of space or time to someone who doubts or denies their existence. &amp;nbsp;How would you do it&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;without assuming the existence of space or time&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;? &amp;nbsp;The short answer is, you couldn't. &amp;nbsp;Even more so regarding arguing for the existence of&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;the Creator&amp;nbsp;of space and time&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus mentions that a professor of his "drummed into his students the perfectly reasonable Christian idea that 'all truth is God's truth' - that all truth comes from God whether considered sacred or secular." (23) &amp;nbsp;I take note of this statement because the idea that "all truth is God's truth" is as common as it is misbegotten. &amp;nbsp;While it may have meant one thing when Augustine first said it (in book two of&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;De Doctrina Christiana, "&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;A person who is a good and a true Christian should realize that&amp;nbsp;truth&amp;nbsp;belongs to his&amp;nbsp;Lord, wherever it is found, gathering and acknowledging it even in pagan&amp;nbsp;literature."), it has come to be something of a wax nose today, used to justify any anti-Christian position which one desires to synthesize with biblical Christianity. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;We also see in Loftus' quoted statement above an example of inconsistent thinking which is wide-spread in contemporary evangelical worldviews. &amp;nbsp;If all truth really is God's truth then a distinction between sacred and secular makes no sense, since it would clearly follow that all truth is sacred truth. &amp;nbsp;Loftus' sacred-secular dualism was anti-biblical and a philosophical wedge in his thinking, waiting to be driven home, separating him from Christ.&amp;nbsp; Where has dualism crept into your worldview?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus' stated deconversion story begins when he commits adultery with a woman, Linda, with whom he worked in ministry. &amp;nbsp;Immediately, Loftus shifts the blame to Linda, stating that "she had it in for preachers, and she took out her wrath on me... &amp;nbsp;There are mitigating factors here, even if I did do wrong. &amp;nbsp;And I did do wrong. &amp;nbsp;But until you experience something like this you will never understand." (25) &amp;nbsp;Even&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;if&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;he did do wrong? &amp;nbsp;Why must I commit adultery and take no responsibility for it in order to understand that adultery is a sin and the fallout from sin is horrendously undesirable?&amp;nbsp; It requires a hardened, irrational heart to admit guilt and provide self-justification in nearly the same breath.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus even blames God for his sin: "The biggest question of all was why God tested me by allowing her to come into my life when she did if he knew in advance I would fail the test?"(26) &amp;nbsp;Loftus portrays himself as a cosmic victim. &amp;nbsp;However, an even bigger question might be, since&amp;nbsp; Loftus was a highly-educated Christian minister, why hadn't he thought about such matters (God's sovereignty over sin) before this, maybe when he had committed other (albeit less consequentially painful) sins? &amp;nbsp;Finding a biblical answer to questions of this nature is one major step toward apostasy-proofing one's self. &amp;nbsp;Fleeing adultery would be another aid. &amp;nbsp;"Can a man carry fire next to his chest&amp;nbsp;and his clothes not be burned?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Or can one walk on hot coals&amp;nbsp;and his feet not be scorched?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;So is he who goes in to his neighbor's wife;&amp;nbsp;none who touches her will go unpunished." (Pr 6:27-29)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;It appears that after the adultery, at a time when resolving marital issues might have wisely been a top priority, Loftus chose rather to investigate the theological implications of the age of the universe, engaging in a correspondence debate with his biochemist cousin. &amp;nbsp;It's hard to imagine a subject which has less to do with repenting from adultery and restoring a gutted marriage than academically investigating the age of the universe for the first time. &amp;nbsp;A word for theologians and students: repentance must always precede research.&amp;nbsp; You cannot move directly from bickering with your spouse or slandering an associate to unrepentantly studying God’s word without consequences on your heart and mind.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus recognized that the biblical pattern for creation "doesn't square with astronomy," (26) as its been most recently formulated and adopts the position that the early chapters of Genesis are myth. &amp;nbsp;He then projects onto the sky various intuitions about what he would do if he created the universe, and "nearly two years later, (he) came to deny the Christian faith." &amp;nbsp;He states that "it required too much intellectual gerrymandering to believe." (27)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;For those interested in the age of the universe controversy, see Harvard PhD geologist Kurt Wise's article&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.sbts.edu/resources/files/2010/02/sbjt_111_wise.pdf"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px color: #000099; text-decoration: underline;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;here&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;. &amp;nbsp;It's a "gerrymandering"-free article, which presents the consistent antithesis between Christianity and unbelief.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;It appears that Loftus remained in the pulpit of his church and various other ministries during this period; this was an utter failure of church discipline, which is ultimately a failure of love. &amp;nbsp;It's sad to read a story of such thorough faithlessness on so many levels, involving so many people. &amp;nbsp;He outlines various "he said - she said" situations of small church and broader denominational politics which led to him eventually leaving the church altogether. &amp;nbsp;"I often ask myself why Christians don't seem to act any better than others when they alone claim to have the power, wisdom, and guidance of God right there within them." (30) &amp;nbsp;Intellectually, that sinners (even redeemed ones) still act like sinners is not problematic, but it can produce some of the greatest suffering in life; and sin and suffering combine well to short-circuit reason.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Loftus' story presents a "sincere and honest" picture of apostasy. &amp;nbsp;It shows clearly the irrationality of sin and the inextricable link between moral and theological failure. &amp;nbsp;It is a cautionary tale for all Christians, and the Bible is not silent on matters such as these either. &amp;nbsp;1 Timothy 1 closes with these words, "This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare,&amp;nbsp;holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,&amp;nbsp;among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;By rejecting faith and a good conscience some have made shipwreck of their faith. &amp;nbsp;A characteristic of Christian ministry is waging good warfare, "fighting the good fight." &amp;nbsp;It is a struggle, a battle, a way of life; and the weapons of this good warfare are&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;holding faith&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;and&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;a good conscience&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;. &amp;nbsp;Faith is never an end in itself, it doesn't mean anything by itself. &amp;nbsp;When the NT refers to "faith" it is referring to more than mere belief, because belief in itself is nothing. &amp;nbsp;It is inseparable from its object: Christ. &amp;nbsp;Paul is telling Timothy to hold onto Christ. &amp;nbsp;A "good conscience" is not merely finding peace with one's self by appealing to universal guilt or the specific guilt of others (as Loftus does), but results from a careful, sensitive application of the Gospel to our lives, to our sins. &amp;nbsp;Christ bears our guilt and produces in us a good conscience, so that we can have hope and begin to act like what we are in Him.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Paul goes on and shows the opposite of this good warfare, those who have not kept faith and a good conscience. &amp;nbsp;The rejection,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;the shipwreck&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;of the faith begins with a certain carelessness or indifference in Christian living and in applying the Gospel to ourselves. &amp;nbsp;It begins with a&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;careless conscience&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;and it ends with a "&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;seared conscience&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;" (1 Tim 4:2). &amp;nbsp;The result of stifling one's conscience produces a moral derailment which more and more eats away at our sensitivity to truth. &amp;nbsp;Violating one's conscience in one way or another undermines our ability to discern true from false, right from wrong, through a process of self-justification (e.g. Loftus' blame-shifting or his sudden desire to investigate the age of the universe, etc.), rather than seeking justification in Christ. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;This violation persists until it is as if the conscience were seared with a hot iron, so that&amp;nbsp;one can blaspheme openly and unabashedly&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt; in a good conscience&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(e.g. Loftus' entire book).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 15.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 12.0px Times New Roman; margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Moral and theological decline go together. &amp;nbsp;We need to recognize there is no such thing as a purely theological controversy. &amp;nbsp;And we must not underestimate the centrality of the Gospel in all of life, including our philosophy and apologetics. &amp;nbsp;Moral decay breeds rational decline.&amp;nbsp; “Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.” (Ps. 2:11)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-8175767241771932191?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/8175767241771932191/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2011/01/case-study-in-apostasy.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/8175767241771932191'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/8175767241771932191'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2011/01/case-study-in-apostasy.html' title='A Case Study in Apostasy'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-1909911591402823185</id><published>2010-07-08T22:54:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2010-07-08T22:54:13.565-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='link'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='atonement'/><title type='text'>Limited Atonement?</title><content type='html'>An &lt;a href="http://www.christmycovenant.com/content/er1/er_lib1/limited_atonement.html"&gt;insightful post&lt;/a&gt; by Ed Ross over at &lt;a href="http://www.christmycovenant.com/"&gt;Christ My Covenant&lt;/a&gt; blog.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-1909911591402823185?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='related' href='http://www.christmycovenant.com/content/er1/er_lib1/limited_atonement.html' title='Limited Atonement?'/><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/1909911591402823185/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/07/limited-atonement.html#comment-form' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1909911591402823185'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1909911591402823185'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/07/limited-atonement.html' title='Limited Atonement?'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-8553650771094740940</id><published>2010-05-05T19:00:00.004-04:00</published><updated>2010-05-05T20:27:25.099-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='exegesis'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='millennialism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='eschatology'/><title type='text'>A Baptist Defends Postmillennialism</title><content type='html'>&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Introduction&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Every locus of systematic theology raises questions which can only be answered by an understanding of biblical eschatology, for “eschatology is the crown and capstone of dogmatic theology.”(1) &amp;nbsp;The entire trajectory of biblical revelation and human history is resolved in eschatological conclusions. The Church lives in the time of Christ’s already inaugurated but not yet fully consummated Kingdom. Expectations regarding the nature and timeline of the Kingdom must be biblical, so that the Church may have a correct understanding of her purpose and direction as vicegerents in his Kingdom and members of his Body.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;A central point of disagreement among evangelicals respecting the broader realm of eschatology is the “millennial debate” over the timing of Christ’s prophesied second advent. The debate is complex by nature, involving every loci of theology, hermeneutical prioritizing, higher criticism, diachronic and synchronic biblical theology, exegesis of prophetic and apocalyptic literature, theories of progressive revelation, and a philosophy of history. The discussion can be further complicated by the use of somewhat inadequate traditional terminology to delineate the different positions: dispensational premillennialism, historic premillennialism, amillennialism, and postmillennialism.(2)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Survey of Various Positions&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;In order to obediently fulfill the Great Commission of Christ the King it is necessary to understand the&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;chronology&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;and&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;nature&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;of his Kingdom; these two issues are also of use in distinguishing millennial views from each other.(3) &amp;nbsp;Briefly, the question of chronology has to do with the relationship between the timing of Christ’s second coming and the establishment of his Millennial Kingdom. Premillennialism holds that the second coming precedes the Millennium; post- and amillennialists believe the second coming succeeds the Millennium. The question of the nature of the Kingdom has to do with its historical character. If the Kingdom is expected to be characterized by radically pervasive righteousness then the position is either premillennial or postmillennial; if it is characterized by the nearly parallel growth of good and evil, it is amillennial.(4)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Dispensational Premillennialism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Premillenarians… insist that one general rule of interpretation should be applied to all areas of theology and that prophecy does not require spiritualization any more than other aspects of truth… History is history, not allegory. Facts are facts. Prophesied future events are just what they are prophesied.(5)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;At the heart of classical dispensationalism is a hermeneutic of literal interpretation. Applying this hermeneutic to biblical prophecy leads invariably to the complex premillennial eschatological conclusions of the dispensational system. The cataclysmic culmination of history leads into a “Great Tribulation” period of seven years, which believers will narrowly escape when Christ returns part way to earth and raptures the Church.(6) &amp;nbsp;Christ then physically returns after the Tribulation with the saints to establish his millennial kingdom of righteousness, peace and prosperity on earth.(7) &amp;nbsp;This millennial period occupies the time between the two resurrections of Revelation 20, between the second coming of Christ and the final Day of Judgment.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Consistent literalism maintains that God’s two “projects” in history (Israel and the Church) remain entirely separate, Israel inheriting the OT promises of earthly, material blessing and the Church inheriting heavenly, spiritual blessing. The present age of the Church is a parenthesis in redemptive history. The coming of God’s Kingdom has been postponed due to its rejection by rebellious Israel; Gentiles have been allowed to receive God’s blessings, while awaiting the fulfillment of all promises to Israel and the Church in the millennium.(8)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Historic Premillennialism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The literalistic hermeneutic of classical dispensationalism has been challenged and attenuated by so-called “progressive dispensationalists” who have adopted an eschatological view more akin to historic premillennialism.(9) &amp;nbsp;Adherents of the historic position have often sought to distinguish themselves from dispensationalists,(10) adhering to a more holistic view of biblical revelation, while still maintaining a literal reading of Revelation 20 with the millennium intervening between two resurrections. The two premillennial positions actually hold little in common theologically; in fact,&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;…the only positive features that unify premillennial views ancient and modern are those that dispensational premillennialism affirms as well – a millennial kingdom in which Satan is bound, instituted after the visible coming of Christ, and a partial resurrection of the dead but prior to the Final Judgment.(11)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Historic premillennialists also maintain that the second coming of Christ will be preceded by a period of Great Tribulation on the earth, though without the controversial rapture debates of the dispensationalist framework.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Amillennialism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Amillennialism has been characterized as the “simplest”(12) of the millennial positions. Amillennialists maintain that the millennium of Revelation 20 is symbolic of the present Church Age and that all eschatological events not yet fulfilled will occur contemporaneously with Christ’s return at the end of this age. The millennium is characterized throughout by the parallel growth and struggle between good and evil, the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light. This struggle is expected to intensify in a period of persecution just prior to Christ’s Parousia.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Robert Reymond puts it succinctly:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The concept of a millennial reign per se is found only in Revelation 20, a book with extensive symbolism. It is most likely that this Johannine “millennium” should be construed symbolically either of the present&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;spiritual reign&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;of Christians with Christ… or of the present reign of the martyred saints in the intermediate state… or perhaps even both together, rather than be construed literally as an aspect of the Eschaton…(13)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Postmillennialism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Postmillennialism agrees with premillennialism regarding the&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;nature&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;of the millennial kingdom as a time of unprecedented historical glory and righteousness under the reign of King Jesus.(14) &amp;nbsp;Postmillennialism also agrees with amillennialism regarding the&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;chronology&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;of the millennium; the “thousand years” of Revelation 20 precedes the second coming of Christ.(15)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;According to postmillennialism, the millennium is characterized by the gradual fulfillment of the Great Commission with the Holy Spirit drawing unprecedented multitudes to Christ through the faithful preaching of the gospel, transforming global society through discipleship; among those converted are the ethnic Israelites who have thus far rejected the Messiah.(16) &amp;nbsp;At the end of the present age there is a brief period of rebellion, after which Christ will return to consummate his Kingdom, there will be a general resurrection, and the final judgment of the just and the unjust will take place. Postmillennialism maintains a gospel-centered, missiologically-driven realistic optimism regarding the future of the present age under the reign of the ascended Christ.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Support for Position&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;It could be argued that a diachronic view of the corpus of Scripture provides a strong case for postmillennialism, from the&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;protoevangelium&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Gen 3:15) through the promises of the Abrahamic covenant (Gen 12, 15, 17) and the Messianic psalms (Ps 2, 22, 110), to the predictions of the Prophets (especially Is 9:6-7; Dan 2:31-35, 44; 7:13-27), as well as Christ’s Kingdom Parables (Matt 13:31-33), the Great Commission (Matt 28:18-20, with its allusion to Dan 7:13-14(17)), the role of ethnic Israel (Rom 9-11), and finally the perpetually controversial millennial passage in Revelation 20. Unfortunately, such an extensive undertaking is beyond the scope of this paper.(18)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Instead, this paper will present an exegetical defense of postmillennialism from 1 Corinthians 15:22-26. If the interpretation here is correct it should be sufficient to establish that only postmillennialism properly apprehends both the biblical chronology and nature of the eschatological millennial kingdom.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. &amp;nbsp;But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. &amp;nbsp;Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. &amp;nbsp;For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. &amp;nbsp;The last enemy to be destroyed is death (1 Cor 15:22-26).(19)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The context of 1 Corinthians 15 is Paul’s response to the question of the validity of bodily resurrection (15:12). Paul provides an eschatological answer, moving from Christ’s resurrection to the&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(“end”).(20) &amp;nbsp;Resurrection is invariably intertwined with Christ’s kingdom reign, since death is an enemy (15:26). The origin of death was sin (“as in Adam all die”) and the deliverance from death is in the Messiah (“in Christ shall all be made alive”). He then gives the eschatological sequence (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;tagmati&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;) of this deliverance: “each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.”&amp;nbsp; Christ was resurrected,(21) “then” (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;epeita&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;) the resurrection “at his coming” of “those who belong to (him),” “then the end” (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;eita to telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;). It is clear from the adverb usage (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;epeita, eita&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;) that Paul is presenting a chronological sequence of eschatological events.(22)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Paul expands on the meaning of&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;eita to&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;by teaching that the “end” (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;) is “&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;when&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;he delivers the kingdom to God the Father&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;after&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;destroying every rule and every authority and power.”(23) &amp;nbsp;The “end” is when the kingdom is consummated, not initiated, and Christ reigns from his resurrection “until he has put all his enemies under his feet.” This demonstrates that the kingdom is a reality before it is delivered to God the Father (contradicting the premillennial view of millennial chronology), but it is also delivered&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;after&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;Christ’s reign has brought about the destruction of every rule, authority and power (contradicting the amillennial view of the equal progression of good and evil throughout the interadvental period).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;When the connection between 15:24 and 15:25 is analyzed in relation to the remainder of the pericope, the postmillennial interpretation is established. The&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;gar&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(“for”) of 15:25 “introduces an explanation,” namely, indicating that the kingdom actions of 15:24 are the result of Christ’s “current but ongoing rule.”(24) &amp;nbsp;The chronological key, then, is that Christ’s established reign persists “until he has put all his enemies under his feet” and&amp;nbsp;“the last enemy… is death,” which is “swallowed up in victory” (15:54) at his “coming” (15:23).(25) &amp;nbsp;Christ’s reign is interadvental, because the last enemy defeated before “the end” is death; and his reign is characterized by progressively putting all his enemies under his feet through the fulfillment of the Great Commission, until he has destroyed every rule, authority and power, since this occurs before the kingdom is delivered to God the Father.(26)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The premillennialist will interject that the adverb usage of 15:23-24 allows for the possibility of an intervening period between the “coming” (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;parousia&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;) of Christ and “the end” (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;to telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;).(27) &amp;nbsp;The semantic range of the terms and grammatical possibility of the interpretation are admitted by all sides.(28) &amp;nbsp;However, Paul’s usage of the term&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;precludes such a conclusion, recognizing that&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;is never used to refer to an “end period.”(29) &amp;nbsp;Theological presuppositions appear to drive this interpretation, rather than syntactical analyses, since there is no positive exegetical evidence in the passage referring to an intervening period between the present interadvental age and the age to come.(30)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The premillennialist rightly recognizes the nature of the millennial kingdom, that Christ reigns in a kingdom of righteousness, but abstracts this “end period” from the present interadvental age in contradiction to the teaching of Paul in this passage of 1 Corinthians.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The amillennialist agrees with the postmillennial assessment of the premillennial interpretation above. In fact, “optimistic amillennialists”(31) aren’t presented with any difficulty by the above exegesis. Problems arise when some amillennialists insist that the destruction of Christ’s enemies is contemporaneous with the second coming.(32) &amp;nbsp;This clearly contradicts the proper sequential translation of the second o[tan clause in 15:24 and its explanatory link to 15:25, as discussed above. The amillennialist correctly apprehends the biblical chronology regarding the millennial kingdom, but not the biblical testimony regarding its nature.(33)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Objections to Position&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Without exaggeration postmillennialism is the most often caricatured eschatological position within professing evangelical circles. From the numerous premature reports of its death, to grossly distorted definitions, the postmillennialism that one reads about in popular works of theology is hardly recognizable by those who consider themselves postmillennialists… Postmillennialism is not liberalism, the social gospel, universalism, perfectionism, or some form of nationalism. Biblical postmillennialism teaches that the kingdom of Christ has been inaugurated and is redemptive, that its supernatural growth is progressive and will lead to worldwide conversion, and, finally, that it will be perfectly consummated only at the Second Coming of Christ.(34)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Apart from the numerous straw men erected in the place of postmillennialism (referred to in the quote above) one of the most common objections to postmillennialism is the imputation of guilt by its historical associations with modern theological liberalism.(35) &amp;nbsp;Guilt-by-association and slippery slope arguments are fallacious and, as such, are unworthy of Christian discourse. It is no less fallacious to point out that premillennialism is invariably the eschatology of anti-Christian cults such as Islam, Mormonism, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses, while amillennialism is the doctrine of Roman Catholicism and Neo-Orthodoxy. Such observations only muddy already turbid waters, rather than providing biblical clarity.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Having very briefly pointed out the mistaken or fallacious nature of the most common objections to postmillennialism,(36) we will look at two of the most substantial objections presented to the postmillennial position, one from each respective alternative position.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The majority of premillennial objections to the postmillennial thesis center on the proper interpretation of New Testament prophecies, particularly the parallel passages of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation 20.&amp;nbsp; If the catastrophic events depicted in these passages characterize the circumstances in the intervening period before Christ’s return, then it would appear to rule out the postmillennialist’s optimism regarding the progress of the gospel until the end of human history.(37)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;More specifically, Revelation 20 depicts the binding of Satan for one thousand years (to prevent him from continuing to deceive the nations), during which the saints are resurrected and reign with Christ (20:1-6). Satan is then released from his prison and he deceives the nations into going to war with Christ and the saints, where the devil is defeated and cast into eternal torment (20:7-10). These events precede the Final Judgment (20:11-15). This all takes place subsequent to a period of great tribulation (12:1-19:5) and Christ’s intervention in history (19:6-21).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Using a literal, chronologically sequential reading of Revelation the premillennialist draws the conclusion that Christ’s return in Revelation 19 precedes his millennial reign in Revelation 20; hence,&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;pre&lt;/i&gt;-millennial.(38) &amp;nbsp;Of particular significance in establishing a literal interpretation of Revelation 20:1-6 is the use of the term&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;anastasis&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(“resurrection”), which is used to refer to “the elimination of the condition of physical death through bodily resurrection” in every instance of its use in the New Testament (with the single exception of Lk 2:34).(39) &amp;nbsp;Given that the only explicit discussion in Scripture regarding the Millennium is this passage, it would seem that the appropriate interpretation here should carry the most force in the millennial debate, establishing the premillennial position. If the premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 is correct then postmillennialism is refuted.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;As mentioned above, amillennial objections have shifted in recent history from arguments based on specific exegetical matters to general soteriological arguments.(40) &amp;nbsp;The general thrust of the argument is that the Church will suffer persecution on earth throughout her existence as an essential facet of her union with Christ in his sufferings. In effect, “inaugurated eschatology comes across as ‘victory now for the One (Christ) and not yet for the many (the church).’”(41) &amp;nbsp;The nature of the church age is that “over the interadvental period in its entirety, from beginning to end, a fundamental aspect of the church’s existence is ‘suffering with Christ’; nothing, the NT teaches, is more basic to its identity than that.”(42)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Arguments in favor of this view of Christ’s interadvental millennial reign generally appeal to two biblical themes for support: redemptive/retributive irony and perseverance as spiritual victory. From the&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;protoevangelium&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Gen 3:15), White presents the case for gospel irony (ultimate victory through apparent defeat) as the paradigm for understanding biblical eschatology:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;…the eschatologically significant moral principles by which his enemies would defeat him would end up being the very means by which he defeats them; in addition, the actual results effected by God are the opposite or a greater degree of the results intended by his enemies.(43)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Redemptive irony then entails defining the church’s victory in terms of perseverance through suffering, demonstrating that the church is characterized throughout by persecution, since perseverance through suffering is inherent in victory. As stated above, the church (ironically) overcomes through enduring persecution, just as Christ overcame sin through death. If the amillennialist is correct regarding the nature of the general soteriological principles at work during the kingdom reign of Christ then postmillennialism is refuted.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Defense of Position&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;B.B. Warfield once remarked (in reference to Revelation 20),&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Nothing, indeed, seems to have been more common in all ages of the Church than to frame an eschatological scheme from this passage, imperfectly understood, and then to impose this scheme on the rest of Scripture&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;vi et armis&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;.(44)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The one point of agreement among scholars regarding the interpretation of Revelation appears to be the extreme difficulty of the task. Revelation is arguably the most figurative book in all of Scripture and it is the only place in all of Scripture which associates a “millennium” with the reign of Christ.&amp;nbsp;Premillennialism rests its entire case regarding the chronology of the millennium on a&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;literal&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;interpretation of the most&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;symbolic&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;book in the New Testament.(45)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Significantly, Revelation contains clearly non-symbolic statements regarding the fulfillment of its own prophecies shortly after they have been given.(46) &amp;nbsp;This, when combined with other internal evidence, suggests the plausibility of a partial preterist understanding of Revelation, as well as a pre-70 A.D. date of authorship.(47) &amp;nbsp;The premillennialist’s futurism leaves these pressing time-frame indicator statements unfulfilled for centuries upon centuries. Also, as Luke 2:34 demonstrates, the semantic range of the term anastasij (“resurrection”) allows for its use in reference beyond “physical resurrection” alone.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The entire edifice of premillennialism appears to rest on an unjustified assertion of the necessity of a literal interpretation of an apocalyptically symbolic book. At the very least, the analogy of faith requires that the more complicated passage in Revelation 20 be understood in light of the much clearer statements of passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:22-26, so that a harmony may be found within Scripture. The premillennial eschatology is irreconcilable with Paul’s end time chronology in 1 Corinthians 15, though neither a partial preterist nor a recapitulatory interpretation of Revelation 20 presents any obstacle to finding a unity of New Testament interpretation.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The amillennialist has objected that union with Christ entails the essential, perpetual suffering of the Church. However, the amillennial position in this regard suffers from a subtle equivocation regarding the terms&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;persecution&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;and&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;suffering&lt;/i&gt;; for not all suffering is reducible to persecution, and it is only the perpetuity of persecution which contradicts the postmillennial position. The postmillennialist agrees that suffering is central to the identity of the Church, but denies that persecutional suffering must necessarily persist until Christ’s second advent. If persecutional suffering is essential to the identity of the Church, then there has been no Church in North America for many years.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Postmillennialism affirms that any time the Church is persecuted she must persevere and that suffering is central to her identity; it simply denies that persecution is a necessary condition for spiritual victory, especially considering that there will be no persecution in heaven, the place of ultimate spiritual victory. Suffering may be the perpetual result of sin without being persecutional.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Also, the amillennialists cited above appear to use the redemptive irony theme in a selective manner, omitting important facets of gospel irony which can be seen to bolster the postmillennial thesis. The ironic victory of the gospel is also&lt;i&gt;&amp;nbsp;historical&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;and&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;gradually pervasive&lt;/i&gt;. Discussing these aspects of gospel irony, Gentry comments:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;…the serpent sought to be like the most high, but was brought low – in history. The craftiest creature became the accursed creature – in history. The woman desired to rule her husband, but was ruled by him – in history. Man from the dust wanted to be like God, but was brought back to the dust – in history. The serpent sought the woman as his ally, but she became the mother of the righteous conqueror – in history. The serpent subdued the man, but the man’s son, the Son of Man, subdued the serpent – in history.(48)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;However, given the amillennial view of the nature of history it appears that the serpent attempts to destroy the greater part of the human race – and succeeds(!) since God only saves “a remnant” of mankind. This hardly appears to be the irony which God has in mind.(49)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The amillennial conclusions here are based on a rejection of the principle of the gradual pervasiveness of the gospel in history. One more point of gospel irony is that the tiny, severely persecuted Church of the first century will be the tool by which Christ will destroy every rule and authority and power, reigning until he has put all his enemies under his feet (Matt 28:18-20; 1 Cor 15:24-25).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;In fact, Matthew organizes the revelation of the kingdom in a surprising and ironic context: In Matthew 12:28 Christ proclaimed the&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;presence&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;of the kingdom (the kingdom is present); in 13:53-58 Matthew records Christ’s rejection (the kingdom appears to fail). Yet between these two kingdom data, the kingdom parables explain the irony of the kingdom’s method: it grows from a small seed to a great plant (13:31-32); it acts like a little yeast leavening the whole (13:33).(50)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The amillennial objections to postmillennialism rest on an equivocation regarding the role of suffering and persecution in the life of the Church and a selective understanding of redemptive irony. While the postmillennialist agrees with the amillennial assessment of the importance of perseverance through suffering in the life of the Church, the postmillennialist sees no warrant for the amillennial view of the nature of the interadvental reign of Christ.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Before concluding, it may be of use to bring into focus a point which appears to have been “lost in the shuffle” of postmillennial polemics, but which may help advance the cause for an evangelical consensus regarding the millennial debate.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Specifically, postmillennialists believe there will be a Satan-led rebellion subsequent to the pervasive reign of Christ on earth (the millennium), but prior to Christ’s return (in accordance with Rev 20:7-8).(51) &amp;nbsp;In this respect, the “judgment coming” of Christ in destroying the Jerusalem temple in A. D. 70 may be viewed as a part of the continuing typological foreshadowing of the final, terrible Day of the Lord, which will only be completely fulfilled at Christ’s second coming. This creates a potential point of agreement on all sides regarding the “already-not yet” character of the interpretation of Revelation and the Olivet Discourse.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Postmillennialism agrees with premillennialism regarding the nature of the millennial kingdom of Christ and agrees with amillennialism regarding the chronology of Christ’s return. Some points of disagreement have been discussed and a case has been presented for viewing postmillennialism as the most biblical view in the millennial debate, combining tempered optimism regarding the future of world history, and an absolute optimism regarding the return of Christ and consummation of his Kingdom.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Notes:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;1&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Louis Berkhof,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Systematic Theology&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co, 1996), 665.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;2&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;"These categories, although helpful and widely accepted, are in certain respects unfortunate as the distinctions involve a great deal more than the time of Christ's return." Robert G. Clouse. “Introduction.” In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Robert G. Clouse (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1977), 7.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;3&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;This “eschatological sorting device” was adapted from: Jay E. Adams,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Time Is At Hand&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Stanley: Timeless Texts, 2004), 8-11.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;4&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Anthony A. Hoekema,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Bible and The Future&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1979), 174.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;5&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;John F. Walvoord,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Millennial Kingdom&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1973), 129-130.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;6&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;There is an intramural debate among dispensationalists regarding the timing of the rapture, whether it will be pre-tribulational, mid-tribulational or post-tribulational.&amp;nbsp; See Gleason L. Archer, Jr. et al.,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Three Views on the Rapture&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996).&amp;nbsp; More recently some have also argued in favor of a “pre-wrath” rapture, occurring sometime between the middle and end of the Tribulation.&amp;nbsp; See Marvin J. Rosenthal,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1990).&amp;nbsp; Historically, most dispensationalists have favored a pre-tribulational perspective.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;7&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Wayne Grudem,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Systematic Theology&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1994), 1112-1114.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;8&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Herman A. Hoyt, "Dispensational Premillennialism," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Meaning of the Millennium&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Robert G. Clouse (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1977).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 49px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;9&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Russell D. Moore,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Kingdom of Christ: The New Evangelical Perspective&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Wheaton: Crossway Books, 2004), 25-80.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;10&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;George Eldon Ladd, "Historic Premillennialism," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Meaning of the Millennium&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Robert G. Clouse (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1977), 18-21.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;11&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Craig A. Blaising, "Premillennialism," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Darrell L. Bock (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999), 187.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;12&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Wayne Grudem,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Systematic Theology&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1994), 1109.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;13&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Robert L. Reymond,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1998), 1033.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;14&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;"The 'reign' that Christ promises to His believers, furthermore, is not a 'spiritual' reign through the church.&amp;nbsp; It is instead a coercive rule over the cosmos (Rev. 5:10)...&amp;nbsp; It would seem therefore that a temporal millennial reign of Christ in the flow of this age's history is part of the messianic hope of Scripture." Russell D. Moore,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Kingdom of Christ: The New Evangelical Perspective&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Wheaton: Crossway Books, 2004), 64-65.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;15&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Some postmillennialists maintain that the "thousand years" refers to a long period of global prosperity in the present age preceding Christ's return; others agree with amillennialists that it refers to the entire era between the two advents.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;16&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Keith A. Mathison,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Postmillennialism: An Eschatology of Hope&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Phillipsburg: P&amp;amp;R Publishing, 1999), 10.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;17&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Craig L. Blomberg,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. D.A. Carson, G.K. Beale (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2007), 100.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;18&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;For a more extensive treatment of relevant passages from a postmillennial perspective see Roderick Campbell,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Israel and the New Covenant&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Philadephia: P&amp;amp;R Publishing, 1954); Kenneth L. Gentry,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;He Shall Have Dominion&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(Tyler: Institute for Christian Economics, 1992).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;19&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Holy Bible, English Standard Version&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Wheaton: Good News Publishers, 2002), 961.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;20&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Paul, the archetypal apologist, argues his case evangelistically (15:1-2), scripturally (15:3-4), evidentially (15:5–7), experientially (15:8-11), logically (15:12-19), soteriologically (15:20-22), eschatologically (15:23-27, 51-54), via&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;reductio ad absurdum&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(29-34), somatologically (15:35-49), and practically (15:58)!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;21&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;It is possible that "firstfruits" refers to Christ or (given the nominative case of&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Bwgrkl; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;aparche&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;) a group raised at the time of Christ’s resurrection (Mt 27:52-53).&amp;nbsp; Either interpretation comports with the argument presented in this paper.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;22&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Walter Bauer, W.F. Arndt, F.W. Gingrich, F.W. Danker,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Frederick William Danker (Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 2000), 295, 361.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;23&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Note that in the ESV the second &lt;i&gt;h&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Bwgrkl; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;otan&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;of 15:24 with the subjunctive aorist (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Bwgrkl; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;katargese&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;) is correctly rendered “after,” in accord with&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;BAGD&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;p. 731 (“with the aorist subjunctive, when the action of the subordinate clause precedes that of the main clause”).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;24&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Darrell L. Bock, "The Son of David and the Saints’ Task: The Hermeneutics of Initial Fulfillment,"&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Bibliotheca Sacra&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;150, no. 600 (October 1993): 455.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;25&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Paul's clear allusion to Ps 110 in 15:25 is important, but space limitations prevent a further investigation into the matter.&amp;nbsp; Suffice it to say that, given the pervasive use of Ps 110 by NT authors, a biblical view of the Messianic Kingdom cannot in any instance utterly divorce Ps 110's usage in the NT from Paul's eschatological usage here in 1 Corinthians 15.&amp;nbsp; If this interpretation is correct then the allusion to Ps 110 gives greater support&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;prima facie&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;to the earlier assertion regarding diachronic biblical support for postmillennialism.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;26&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;This view of Pauline eschatology coheres well with the NT eschatological teachings of Jesus and John.&amp;nbsp; See Keith A. Mathison,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Postmillennialism: An Eschatology of Hope&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Phillipsburg: P&amp;amp;R Publishing, 1999), 178-179.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;27&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;"Like the preceding&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;epeita&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(v. 23), the temporal adverb&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;eita&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;most likely implies an interval of time between the coming of Christ and the end...&amp;nbsp; If&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;epeita&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, a closely related word can mark an interval of 1900 years in the previous verse, may not&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;eita&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;allow for a 1,000-year interval in verse 24?...&amp;nbsp; Therefore, by "the end" Paul means an end period, which includes Christ's conquest of enemy powers followed by the handing over of the kingdom to the Father...&amp;nbsp; Thus the most probable meaning of&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;eita&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;and&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;to telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;in verse 24 lends evidence to a time gap between the coming of Christ and the end, which allows for a millennial reign of Christ, the very kingdom (&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;ten basileian&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;) mentioned in verse 24." D. Edmond Hiebert, "Evidence from 1 Corinthians 15," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;A Case for Premillennialism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Donald K. Campbell, Jeffrey L. Townsend (Chicago: Moody Bible Institute, 1992), 230-231.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;28&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Geerhardus Vos,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Pauline Eschatology&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1930), 243.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;29&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Paul uses&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Bwgrkl; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;em&gt;telos&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;12 other times, never to indicate an “end period” (Rom 6:21, 22; 10:4; 13:7; 1 Cor 1:8; 10:11; 2 Cor 1:13; 3:13; 11:15; Phil 3:19; 1Th 2:16; 1Tim 1:5).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px; text-indent: 54px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;30&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Wallis’ statement can be taken as representative, “Therefore, since there is a sequence clearly marked, the&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;cannot be simultaneous with the Parousia.&amp;nbsp; Because the&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;is preceded by the destruction of enemies, and the destruction of enemies cannot be put before the Parousia, the&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;telos&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;must stand beyond the Parousia and judgment.” Wilber B. Wallis, "The Problem of an Intermediate Kingdom in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28,"&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;18, no. 4 (Fall 1975 ): 231.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The postmillennialist simply asks why the destruction of enemies cannot be put before the Parousia?&amp;nbsp; In context, Wallis gives no argument in support of his assertion. Yet this contradicts what seems to be the most straightforward reading of the passage.&amp;nbsp; In part, Wallis’ interpretation is due to a prior commitment to a pessimistic view of interadvental history which precludes following 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 to its clearest conclusion, while also permitting a particular interpretation of Revelation 20 to be the exegetical boundary marker on this passage, leading to the interjection of an extra millennial period which is entirely alien to the text under discussion.&amp;nbsp; Issues surrounding Revelation 20 will be discussed in the next two sections of this paper.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;31&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Or “nonquantitative postmillennialists.” See Vern S. Poythress, "Currents within Amillennialism,"&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Presbyterion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;26, no. 1 (2000): 21-25; "2 Thessalonians 1 Supports Amillennialism,"&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;37, no. 4 (1995): 534.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;32&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Robert B. Strimple, "Amillennialism," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Darrell L. Bock (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999), 109-111; Simon J. Kistemaker,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Exposition of the First Epistle to the Corinthians&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;(Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 1993), 552-553.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;33&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;In the literature surveyed in researching this paper, it appeared that contemporary amillennialists believed there were sufficient general soteriological reasons for rejecting postmillennialism, without sufficient consideration of the exegesis of 1 Corinthians 15:22-26.&amp;nbsp; Those “general soteriological reasons” will be discussed in the next two sections of this paper; suffice it to say, however, if the interpretation above is correct, no general soteriological reasons will be sufficient to overturn Paul’s teaching in this regard.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;34&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Keith A. Mathison, "A Summary Case for Postmillennialism," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Thine Is the Kingdom: Studies in the Postmillennial Hope&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Kenneth L. Gentry (Vallecito: Chalcedon Foundation, 2003), 1, 3.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;35&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;There can be no such thing as a "liberal postmillennialist," by definition.&amp;nbsp; Postmillennialism is the doctrine that Christ will return after the Millennium.&amp;nbsp; No liberal theologian believes in the bodily return of Christ at the close of human history.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;36&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;For a fuller response to common misrepresentations see Greg L. Bahnsen, "The Prima Facie Acceptability of Postmillennialism,"&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Journal of Christian Reconstruction&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;3, no. 2 (Winter 1976-77).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;37&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Craig A. Blaising, "A Premillennial Response to Kenneth L. Gentry Jr," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Darrell L. Bock (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999), 73-78.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;38&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Harold W. Hoehner, "Evidence from Revelation 20," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;A Case for Premillenialism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Donald K. Campbell, Jeffrey L. Townsend (Chicago: Moody Press, 1992), 245-250.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;39&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Craig A. Blaising, "Premillennialism," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Darrell L. Bock (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999), 223-224.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;40&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Richard B. Gaffin, Jr, "Theonomy and Eschatology: Reflections on Postmillennialism," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Theonomy: A Reformed Critique&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Will S. Barker, W. Robert Godfrey (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1990), 197-226; R. Fowler White, "Agony, Irony, and Victory in Inaugurated Eschatology: Reflections on the Current Amillennial-Postmillennial Debate,"&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Westminster Theological Journal&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;62, no. 2 (Fall 2000): 161-176.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;41&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;White,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;ibid.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, p. 167.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;42&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Gaffin,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;ibid.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, p. 211.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;43&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;White,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;ibid&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;., p. 170.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;44&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;B. B. Warfield, "The Millennium and The Apocalypse,"&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Princeton Theological Review&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;2 (October 1904): 3.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;45&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;John repeatedly interjects explanations for the meanings of various symbols throughout the book, severely undercutting literalistic interpretations, e.g. lampstands represent churches (1:20), eyes represent the Spirit (5:6), incense represents prayers (5:8), a serpent represents Satan (12:9), heads represent mountains (17:9), horns represent kings (17:12), waters represent people (17:15), etc.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;46&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Rev 1:1, 3; 3:10; 22:6, 10.&amp;nbsp; Similar statements were made by Christ during the parallel passages in the Olivet Discourse, cf. Mt 24:34, Lk 21:32, Mk 13:30.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;47&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating the Book of Revelation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(San Francisco: Christian Universities Press, 1997).&amp;nbsp; While the scope of this paper precludes further discussion of preterism and higher criticism regarding Revelation’s date of authorship, it is worth noting that a preterist, like the premillennialist, maintains a sequentialist interpretation of Rev 19-20; however, a recapitulatory reading of Rev 19-20 with a post-70 A.D. date of authorship (often held to by amillennialists) does not necessarily preclude the postmillennial view, especially when one considers the parallels between Ps 110 and Rev 19 in light of Ps 110’s use throughout the NT.&amp;nbsp; See: William O. Einwechter, "Psalm 110 and the Postmillennial Hope," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Thine Is the Kingdom: Studies in the Postmillennial Hope&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Kenneth L. Gentry (Vallecito: Chalcedon Foundation, 2003), 55-59.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;48&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Kenneth L. Gentry Jr., "Agony, Irony, and the Postmillennialist," in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Thine Is The Kingdom: Studies in the Postmillennial Hope&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr (Vallecito: Chalcedon Foundation, 2003), 98-99.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;49&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;The belief that only a remnant of mankind will ultimately be saved explicitly contradicts the definition of "redemptive irony" given by White, as quoted above; namely, "the actual results effected by God are the opposite or a greater degree of the results intended by his enemies."&amp;nbsp; If this is the case then "a greater degree" of mankind must be saved than lost.&amp;nbsp; The postmillennialist recognizes that the discipleship - in history - of the greater degree of mankind carries historical implications for society and culture.&amp;nbsp; See B. B. Warfield, "Jesus Christ the Propitiation for the Whole World,"&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;The Expositor&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;21 (1921): 241-253.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;50&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Gentry, ibid., p. 98.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="font: 10px &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; margin: 0px 0px 12px; text-indent: 50px;"&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;51&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Kenneth L. Gentry Jr., "A Postmillennial Response to Craig L. Blaising" in&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"&gt;, ed. Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr. (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999), 237.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;BIBLIOGRAPHY&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Books&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Adams, Jay E.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Time Is At Hand&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Stanley: Timeless Texts, 2004.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Archer Jr., Gleason L, Stanley N. Gundry, Paul D. Feinberg, Douglas J. Moo, Richard R. Reiter.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Three Views on the Rapture&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Bauer, Walter, W.F. Arndt, F.W. Gingrich, F.W. Danker.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, 3rd ed. Edited by Frederick William Danker. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 2000.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Berkhof, Louis.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Systematic Theology&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co, 1996.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Blomberg, Craig L.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Edited by D.A.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Carson, G.K. Beale. Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2007.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Campbell, Roderick.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Israel and the New Covenant&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Philadephia: P&amp;amp;R Publishing, 1954.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating the Book of Revelation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. San Francisco: Christian Universities Press, 1997.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;_________.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;He Shall Have Dominion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Tyler: Institute for Christian Economics, 1992.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Grudem, Wayne.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Systematic Theology&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1994.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Hoekema, Anthony A.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Bible and The Future&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1979.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Kistemaker, Simon J.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Exposition of the First Epistle to the Corinthians&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 1993.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Mathison, Keith A.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Postmillennialism: An Eschatology of Hope.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Phillipsburg: P&amp;amp;R Publishing, 1999.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Moore, Russell D.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Kingdom of Christ: The New Evangelical Perspective&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Wheaton: Crossway Books, 2004.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Reymond, Robert L.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Rosenthal, Marvin J.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1990.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Holy Bible&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, English Standard Version. Wheaton: Good News Publishers, 2002.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Vos, Geerhardus.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Pauline Eschatology&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1930.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Walvoord, John F.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Millennial Kingdom&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1973.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Articles&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Bahnsen, Greg L. "The Prima Facie Acceptability of Postmillennialism."&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Journal of Christian Reconstruction&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;3, no. 2 (Winter 1976-77).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Blaising, Craig A. "Premillennialism." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Darrell L. Bock, 187. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;_________. "A Premillennial Response to Kenneth L. Gentry Jr." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Darrell L. Bock, 73-78. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Bock, Darrell L. "The Son of David and the Saints’ Task: The Hermeneutics of Initial Fulfillment."&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Bibliotheca Sacr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;a 150, no. 600 (October 1993): 455.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Clouse, Robert G. “Introduction.” In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Robert G. Clouse, 7. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1977.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Einwechter, William O. "Psalm 110 and the Postmillennial Hope." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Thine Is the Kingdom: Studies in the Postmillennial Hope&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Kenneth L. Gentry, 55-59. Vallecito: Chalcedon Foundation, 2003.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Gaffin, Richard B., Jr. "Theonomy and Eschatology: Reflections on Postmillennialism."&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Theonomy: A Reformed Critique&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Will S. Barker, W. Robert Godfrey, 197-226. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1990.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Gentry Jr., Kenneth L. "A Postmillennial Response to Craig L. Blaising." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., 237. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;_________. "Agony, Irony, and the Postmillennialist." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Thine Is The Kingdom: Studies in the Postmillennial Hope&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr, 98-99. Vallecito: Chalcedon Foundation, 2003.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;_________. "A Postmillennial Response to Craig L. Blaising." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., 237. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Hiebert, D. Edmond. "Evidence from 1 Corinthians 15." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;A Case for Premillennialism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Donald K.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Campbell, Jeffrey L. Townsend, 230-231. Chicago: Moody Bible Institute, 1992.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Hoehner, Harold W. "Evidence from Revelation 20." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;A Case for Premillenialism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Donald K.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Campbell, Jeffrey L. Townsend, 245-250. Chicago: Moody Press, 1992.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Hoyt, Herman A. "Dispensational Premillennialism." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Robert G. Clouse. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1977.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Ladd, George Eldon. "Historic Premillennialism." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Robert G.&amp;nbsp;Clouse, 18-21. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1977.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Mathison, Keith A. "A Summary Case for Postmillennialism." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Thine Is the Kingdom: Studies in the Postmillennial Hope&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Kenneth L. Gentry, 1, 3. Vallecito: Chalcedon Foundation, 2003.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Poythress, Vern S. "Currents within Amillennialism."&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Presbyterion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;26, no. 1 (2000): 21-25.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;_________. "2 Thessalonians 1 Supports Amillennialism."&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;37, no. 4 (1995): 534.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Strimple, Robert B. "Amillennialism." In&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;, ed. Darrell L. Bock, 109-111. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1999.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Wallis, Wilber B. "The Problem of an Intermediate Kingdom in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28."&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;18, no. 4 (Fall 1975 ): 231.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Warfield, B. B. "The Millennium and The Apocalypse."&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Princeton Theological Review&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;2 (October 1904): 3.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;_________. "Jesus Christ the Propitiation for the Whole World."&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;The Expositor&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;21 (1921): 241-253.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin: 0px;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;White, R. Fowler. "Agony, Irony, and Victory in Inaugurated Eschatology: Reflections on the Current Amillennial-Postmillennial Debate."&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;Westminster Theological Journal&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;62, no. 2 (Fall 2000): 161-176.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-8553650771094740940?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/8553650771094740940/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/05/baptist-defends-postmillennialism_05.html#comment-form' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/8553650771094740940'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/8553650771094740940'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/05/baptist-defends-postmillennialism_05.html' title='A Baptist Defends Postmillennialism'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-3057470231549146485</id><published>2010-05-02T18:07:00.001-04:00</published><updated>2010-05-02T18:10:49.802-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='atheism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='apologetics'/><title type='text'>Bill Craig Curb Stomps Dick Dawkins...</title><content type='html'>...&lt;a href="http://thegospelcoalition.org/publications/cci/five_arguments_for_god/"&gt;philosophically speaking&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-3057470231549146485?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/3057470231549146485/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/05/bill-craig-curb-stomps-dick-dawkins.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/3057470231549146485'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/3057470231549146485'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/05/bill-craig-curb-stomps-dick-dawkins.html' title='Bill Craig Curb Stomps Dick Dawkins...'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-2582613360424501690</id><published>2010-03-19T00:04:00.006-04:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T07:29:40.854-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='TAG'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='atheism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='critcism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='apologetics'/><title type='text'>A Second Response to Mitch Leblanc</title><content type='html'>&lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Mitch Leblanc has &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://urbanphilosophy.net/philosophy/zao-on-the-transcendental-argument/"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;responded&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; to &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/considered-response-to-mitchell-leblanc.html"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;my criticisms&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; of his &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://urbanphilosophy.net/philosophy/the-transcendental-argument-for-the-existence-of-god/"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;.  I will respond first to what I perceive to be the three most central points of contention.  I will then make several responses on other matters; those responses will be my last regarding those matters.  If Mitch would like to respond to any of those points then I will grant him the last word on them.  I expect any further responses I would make in those areas would be primarily iterative.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;So, by way of response on salient points:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Source Citation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;1.) One of my central points is that Mitch’s post is academically dishonest.  He cites a book which he has not read as though he has read it.  For those unfamiliar with academic citations, if you are quoting a primary source which is quoting a secondary source, your citation should read something like: &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Bahnsen, Greg L. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Van Til’s Apologetic: Readings and Analysis&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;. P &amp;amp; R Publishing, 1998. 277. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;As quoted in: &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Choi, Sean. “The Transcendental Argument.” &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Reasons for Faith: Making a Case for the Christian Faith&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;. Illustrated. Geisler, Norman L., and Chad V. Meister.  Good News Publishers, 2007. 238-243.  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Or something to the effect that you are quoting someone else’s quotation.  Some might think this is no big deal, but this is one of the myriad ways in which people attempt to “beef up” the academic appearance of less-than-scholarly work.  This sort of pseudo-scholarship slips by (particularly at the undergraduate level) all the time, but it doesn’t work when someone is familiar with the source material being cited.  Mitch’s silence regarding my accusation in this regard is deafening.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Let me put it this way: if he’s read Bahnsen’s book, why did he choose to use this particular footnote as representative of TAG rather than some portion of the 30 or so pages of primary argumentation on the subject found in the same volume?  If he hasn’t read the book (and is only borrowing Choi’s footnote quoting a footnote), why did he cite it as though he had?  Either case involves a certain level of dishonesty, in the first case by avoiding the strongest presentation of the position he criticizes or in the second by padding his citations.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Conventionalism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Regarding my very brief rebuttal to his equally brief assertions regarding the validity of logical conventionalism Mitch replied, “&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;This is a claim that is thrown around a lot, and it is a claim that is just simply false. There simply is no problem with logic being conventional, while having its principles be necessarily true.  Zao is welcome to either read the literature cited in my paper, the brief treatment &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://urbanphilosophy.net/philosophy/a-conventionalist-justification-of-logic/"&gt;&lt;span style="text-decoration: underline ; letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;here&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; or wait for an upcoming article I’m expecting authored by a logician.”&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Mitch makes repeated assertions in this regard, but provides absolutely zero &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;argumentation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; to demonstrate the soundness of his claims.  Instead, he offers footnotes (and we’ve already seen problems with Mitch’s source citation).  Since no argument has been presented for these assertions, again, no refutation is necessary... or even possible, really.  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;However, I would simply point out that the “brief treatment” Mitch links to at no point offers any support for his assertion that logic is both conventional and necessary; only that logic can be conventional and &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;objective.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;    Surely I don’t need to explain the difference between &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;necessary &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;and &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;objective.  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The quoted author does this while &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;embracing&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; the arbitrariness of logical conventionalism as an epistemic axiom, and averring that epistemic justification reduce&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;s to linguistic definitions; the adoption of conventionalism is then a matter of pragmatics, of predisposition.  As Mitch put it, “So put, conventionalism is the adoption of a system of justification. Other systems could have been chosen, but weren’t and no justification is required for the choice.”  This statement of “conventionalist fideism” hardly substantiates Mitch’s claims for the coherence of logical conventionalism.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;If Mitch wants to offer an argument in support of his assertions, I’d be glad to see it.  Until then I will view all his assertions regarding the coherence of conventionalism as examples of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;ipse dixitism.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style=" font-style: normal;  font-family:Georgia, serif;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal 'Times New Roman'; "&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Circular reasoning and a Euthyphro dilemma analog&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal 'Times New Roman'; "&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;There are two problems here which I will attempt to untangle as briefly as possible, without reiterating/quoting the background material:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal 'Times New Roman'; "&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;1.) Frame’s statement (C) is circular, but we have been discussing axiomatic presuppositions, which aren’t justified logically, they’re viewed as self-evident.  The reason we’re arguing about them is because it is evident to my self but not to your self.  To point out that Frame’s reasoning in justifying his most basic presupposition makes reference to his most basic presupposition hardly counts as criticism; it’s stating the obvious.  What’s actually remarkable is that Mitch thinks this is an example of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;petitio principii&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;, but that his argument-less assertion of the coherence of God-independent logic is not.  Either we’re both guilty of begging the question or neither of us is.  They’re equally ultimate but opposite presuppositions.  Mitch believes logic is independent of God and all of his reasoning will assume this, even his argumentation for it; my position would be the opposite.  Now, we can just accuse each other of question begging &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;ad nauseam &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;or we can recognize the nature of the discussion we’re in and attempt to elevate the conversation beyond that.  I’ll leave it to Mitch to decide which will be the case.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal 'Times New Roman'; "&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;2.) Mitch seems to think that the statement “God thinks logically” is “obvious(ly) incoherent.”  He’s willing to bypass this issue in order to consider what it means to say that God thinks logically.  He then conflates logical laws with the reasoning process, stating that thinking logically stands in contradiction to omniscience.  Now, if Mitch can’t imagine what it means for God to think logically, he might be more well-served to just ask what it means (or to read some primary sources on Van Tillianism), rather than just speculating and pulling up the first contradiction which comes to mind.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Now, on to the second section of responses.  As I said above, the following will be my final statements on the issues raised.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Hybrids&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In response to my criticism regarding Mitch’s fictitious hybridization of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;a priori &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;and conventionalist epistemic justifications for laws of logic he states, “&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;I merely rely on the &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;possibility&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; of a system and that this possibility is enough to make the point I wanted to make.”  This, of course, begs the question at hand, given that I have argued that no such hybridization is possible without being clearly reducible to one or the other of the two systems.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; Instead of offering a case for this hybridization, Mitch offers the classic “argument-from-analogy-minu-argument,” referring to hybrid cars.  Unfortunately, it would seem that Mitch is not a Prius mechanic.  He doesn’t seem to recognize that, at any given moment, a hybrid car is functioning  on one of two &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;distinct &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;power sources: either an electric engine or an internal combustion engine, but never on a single “hybrid” engine.  This analogy much better illustrates my point that Mitch’s proposed hybrid would likely be reducible to one of the two distinct systems of epistemic justification, just like a hybrid car’s two power sources.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;As I said at the outset, Mitch will need to present even the barest sketch of this “hybrid” system before it’s possibility (much less plausibility) can even be entertained.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Presuppositional semantics&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;I pointed out that Mitch relies on a formulation of TAG which any contemporary Van Tillian worth his salt would reject as a straw man.  By way of response Mitch states, “&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;But what real difference does this make to our discussion? If I’m missing something then I wait to be informed, but it seems to me that even under this view the claim that “Both the truth of P or falisity (sic) of P presupposes Q” will reduce, in our discussion, to the claim that “logic presupposes the existence of God” since I am not denying the existence of logic. In other words, what difference does this make to any of my subsequent criticisms insofar as they pertain to the presuppositionalist ideas I mention?”&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Since you are waiting and all, I’m willing to inform you of what you are missing, something which is plainly obvious to the Van Tillians who have taken the time to read your post: you know very little about Van Tillian presuppositionalism.  You have read no primary source documents on the subject.  You are unfamiliar with the role of presuppositional semantics in presuppositional apologetics.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;  You have conflated &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;implication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;with &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;presupposition &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;and when confronted about it, you wave your hands and say that it doesn’t make any difference.  Well, maybe it doesn’t make any difference... unless, of course, part of the goal in your criticism was to accurately represent the position you have chosen to criticize.  If that's not the case, please say so.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Axioms&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;I stated that the nature of an axiomatic presupposition exerts influence in all other propositional beliefs in a given worldview.  I think this is uncontroversial; however, Mitch has taken issue with the idea that a “non-Christian” worldview has “not Christianity” included in its axiomatic presupposition.  He believes this to be a deduction from a given axiom, e.g. “Bob the Buddhist’s foundational axiom is ‘Buddhism is true.’”  Mitch seems to have forgotten that definitions (especially systematic religious definitions) involve &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;delineation.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;  The statement “Buddhism is true” only implies “Christianity is false” if Buddhism is delineated from Christianity &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;by definition, &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;e.g. the definition of Buddhism includes that Buddhism is “not Christianity.”  It’s definitional, not inferential.  Far from “rendering the term axiom meaningless” (as Mitch claimed), I simply view the axiom as fully-invested with meaning.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Fristianity&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;I pointed out to Mitch that the Fristianity objection (created by Van Tillians) leaves only two viable worldviews up for debate as providing the necessary preconditions for intelligibility: Christianity and Fristianity.  Mitch replied, “&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The Fristianity objection, if sound, merely shows that the central claim of presuppositionalism is false. That is, if the Fristianity objection holds then it is false that no non-Christian theistic methods can possibly justify X, Y, Z. This is all I was intending to show.”&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p  style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman; color:#040404;"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The Fristianity objection emphatically does &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;not&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; “merely show that the central claim of presuppositionalism is false” no matter how much Mitch wishes that were the case.  That may be “all (he) was intending to show,” but the argument proves too much for Mitch then.  The objection leaves only two viable options: Fristianity or Christianity.  Besides, if Mitch persists in clinging to conventionalism as the defeater for TAG, then why present the Fristianity objection in the first place?  It seems rather superfluous at best in that case.  I’d wager that he presented it because he didn’t fully understand its implications.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 15.0px 0.0px; text-align: justify; line-height: 20.0px; font: 12.0px Times New Roman"&gt;&lt;span style="letter-spacing: 0.0px"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;By way of conclusion, since I’ve repeatedly made reference to reading primary sources on Van Tillian presuppositionalism (which admittedly can make for dense reading at times), let me recommend (to anyone interested) starting with a good introductory work like &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.monergismbooks.com/Pushing-the-Antithesis-The-Apologetic-Methodology-of-Greg-L-Bahnsen-p-17163.html"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Pushing the Antithesis&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.monergismbooks.com/Pushing-the-Antithesis-The-Apologetic-Methodology-of-Greg-L-Bahnsen-p-17163.html"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; by Gary Demar&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;.  Of more intermediate use would be &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Apologetics-Glory-God-John-Frame/dp/0875522432"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Apologetics to the Glory of God &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Apologetics-Glory-God-John-Frame/dp/0875522432"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;by John Frame&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;.  And in the advanced camp, go read the man himself: &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cornelius-Van-Til/e/B001JS7F00"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Cornelius Van Til&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;.  (Some say that he demonstrates that the incomprehensibility of God is a communicable attribute; however, there’s still very much to be learned from him.)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-2582613360424501690?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/2582613360424501690/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/03/second-response-to-mitch-leblanc.html#comment-form' title='9 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/2582613360424501690'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/2582613360424501690'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/03/second-response-to-mitch-leblanc.html' title='A Second Response to Mitch Leblanc'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>9</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-870527098984885032</id><published>2010-02-18T11:02:00.021-05:00</published><updated>2010-03-11T14:55:47.362-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='TAG'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='atheism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='critcism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='apologetics'/><title type='text'>A Considered Response to Mitchell Leblanc on The Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God</title><content type='html'>&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"   style="  color: rgb(130, 128, 128); font-family:Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;font-size:12px;"&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-size:small;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Below you will find a reprint of an &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://urbanphilosophy.net/philosophy/the-transcendental-argument-for-the-existence-of-god/"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;article&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; from philosophy student Mitchell Leblanc (of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://urbanphilosophy.net/"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;urbanphilosophy.net&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;) making an effort at refuting the classical Van Tillian use of TAG (the Transcendental Argument for the existence of God), with my responses interspersed throughout in &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;italics.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Introduction&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Cornelius Van Til set the foundation of an argument for the existence of God that focuses on certain tenets. Van Til believed that (i) everyone has knowledge of God, some just suppress it (ii) Natural theological arguments are ineffective because they do not prove the Christian God uniquely over any other, (iii) we all have presuppositions which either assist or defeat our truth-seeking intentions (all non-Christian presuppositions defeat such intention), (iv) it can be shown that without Christian theism as an adopted worldview, the intelligibility of the world is lost, that one cannot make sense of logic, morality, or science. Van Til’s system became known as presuppositionalism and the modern scholars which have taken up a defence of his position include Greg Bahnsen and John M. Frame.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The most intriguing part of presuppositionalism is the assertion that there is, and only can be, one argument for the existence of the Christian God. With the exception of Frame, presuppositionalists largely reject traditional arguments for the existence of God claiming, as Van Til, that they offer only the mere probability of God’s existence and not the certainty that a Christian requires[2].&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;As such, Van Til proposed a transcendental argument. Transcendental arguments have origins which trace back to Immanuel Kant and generally take the form of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;modus tollens&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;P&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;If not-Q then not-P&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Therefore, Q&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;We can find an example of such an argument in Descartes’ Cogito:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;I am thinking&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;If I do not exist, then I am not thinking&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Therefore, I exist&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The unique purpose of transcendental arguments is in many ways geared towards addressing the skeptic[3]. The arguments begin with a premise with which even the most hardened skeptic will agree and move to show that there is a precondition of that premise which cannot, thereby, be denied. In the above example of Descartes’ Cogito, existing is found to be the necessary precondition of thinking.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In the case of Christian theism, the transcendental argument employed is one which asserts that God is a precondition for the existence, and intelligibility of logic, morality, and science (amongst other things). For the purpose of this paper, I will focus on the claim that the existence of the Christian God[4] is a necessary precondition of the existence of logical principles[5]. I will present a formulation of such an argument, but first I would like to clarify what the TAG is asserting.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Throughout presuppositionalist literature is this notion of needing to “account” for logical principles. To be sure to understand what is meant by this, it would be prudent to present an excerpt from presuppositionalist Greg Bahnsen in his debate with atheist Gordon Stein[6]:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;What are the laws of logic, Dr. Stein, and how are they justified? We’ll still have to answer that question from a materialist standpoint&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;[7]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;. From a Christian standpoint, we have an answer – obviously they reflect the thinking of God. They are, if you will, a reflection of the way God thinks and expects us to think.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;With the argument presented informally, I now introduce a formal version.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The Transcendental Argument Stated:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Sean Choi, in his criticism, offers us the following formulation of the TAG[8]:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(1) There is a rational justification for the laws of logic&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(2) It is necessary that: if Christian theism is false, then there is no rational justification for the laws of logic&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(3)   Christian theism is true&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In support of (2), Choi observes the justification as being:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(2a)      It is necessary that: if there is a non-Christian theistic way to justify the laws of logic, then it will be either the a priori way or the a posteriori way or the conventionalist way&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(2b)      It is necessary that: neither the a priori way nor the a posteriori way nor the conventionalist way will justify the laws of logic&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(2c)      Therefore, it is necessary that: there is no non-Christian theistic way to justify the laws of logic&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Initial Objections&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;There are a number of criticisms which Choi makes in his paper. He chooses to grant premises (1) and (2a) though with regard to (2a) while he does grant the premise for the sake of argument, he notes that it may be a false trillema. I am inclined to agree with Choi’s analysis. It seems to me that some hybridization of any of the mentioned means of justification may bring about a new means of justification. For example, a hybridization of an a priori and conventionalist system may succeed in providing the justification of logic sought by Bahnsen, but in a manner wherein the new system may be thought of as unique to both previous a priori systems, and forms of conventionalism.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:'trebuchet ms';"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Mitch starts off on the wrong foot immediately by proposing a hypothetical "hybridization" of two positions which is also "unique" to those other positions.  So, is it a "hybrid" or is it "unique"?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:'trebuchet ms';"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;If there is a non-contradictory way of producing such a system which is not ultimately reducible to one of the non-hybridized positions and provides the justification of logic then Mitch ought to present it, rather than giving some imaginary, contentless alternative as though it were an actual objection.  Some arguments need only be repeated in order to be refuted.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:'trebuchet ms';"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Also, Mitch borrows from Sean Choi's understanding of TAG as reducible to modus tollens. However, advances have been made in presuppositionalism which have shown Choi's position to be mistaken.  Don Collett has argued effectively (in &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:'trebuchet ms';"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Revelation and Reason&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:'trebuchet ms';"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; edited by K. Scott Oliphint) that Van Til's conception of presuppositional semantics is identical to the Strawson/Van Fraasen semantics, which makes a clear distinction between "presupposition" and "implication."  (Even John Frame has &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.frame-poythress.org/frame_articles/2003ReplytoCollett.htm"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:'trebuchet ms';"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;accepted Collett's argumentation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:'trebuchet ms';"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; in this respect.)  If Mitch is unaware of these advances in presuppositional apologetics and its implications regarding TAG, he need only have asked &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.choosinghats.com/"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Chris Bolt&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; about them.  I happen to know that he's a pleasant fellow, apt to teach, and would have gladly shared this information, helping prevent Mitch from misunderstanding TAG and criticizing his own misunderstandings.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Elsewhere in his presentation[9] Choi presents a criticism of (2b) by outlining the sheer impossibility of a TAG defender showing that &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;every&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;possible&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; a priori, a posteriori or conventionalist way of justifying the laws of logic fail. Of course, the TAG defender may succeed if they show that all defences of either an a priori, a posteriori or conventionalist justification depend upon a particular claim that can be shown to be false.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Bahnsen seems to think that any a priori, a posteriori or conventionalist justification of the laws of logic is incompatible with Christianity. That is to say, if one is justifying the principles of logic in any of these manners, they are employing tenets rejected by Christianity. In other words, Bahnsen believes that it follows from ‘Christianity is true’ that ‘the a priori way, a posteriori way and the conventionalist way fail to justify the laws of logic’ for if Christianity is true, the laws of logic can only be justified in the manner he presents[10]. By doing so, Bahnsen asserts that non-Christian justifications operate on the presupposition that Christianity is false. As such, in an attempt to avoid the arduous task of showing that all flavours of the aforementioned possible justifications are false (and thereby that any worldviews that employ them are false), he seeks only to show that they all depend upon a particular claim, that ‘Christianity is false’, and that this claim renders everything unintelligible. Clearly, Bahnsen has drawn a dichotomy wherein one either accepts Christianity, or wholly rejects it; no middle ground is possible. As Bahnsen states[11]:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;It is absolutely crucial that transcendental argumentation begin by positing that Christian theism is either true or false…. Van Til’s defense of the faith does not require the apologist to be aware of and refute every single variation of unbelieving philosophy, but only the presupposition common to them all (namely, the rejection of Christian theism). Many apologists mistakenly imagine that there are really three options available: one may accept Christianity, reject it, or be “undecided.” But, as Van Til recognized, to be undecided about the claim that Christian theism is the presupposition necessary to make sense out of any reasoning whatsoever is to begin one’s reasoning on the operational assumption that this claim is false (and can be laid aside as one proceeds to research and develop one’s views). Since there are only two options at the most fundamental level – the truth or falsity of Christian theism as a presupposition – the refutation of the unbelieving one (in whatever illustrative variation it appears) is an indirect proof of the other.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;But what might this mean for our discussion? If Bahnsen is permitted to carry on with his criteria, then if any a priori, a posteriori or conventionalist justifications of logic are shown to be false (and subsequently, the worldviews that house and depend on them) all other formulations which properly fall under those headings will also be false (worldviews included) since they employ the same proposition, namely, ‘Christianity is false’. Of course, this is not sound reasoning unless the shared proposition is what is &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;causing&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; the justification to be false. Bahnsen needs to show that ‘Christianity is false’ is the ‘false-making’ proposition of all non-Christian worldviews, and it doesn’t seem that this is possible by any means other than (i) showing that all possible non-Christian justifications will have ‘Christianity is false’ as the &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;only&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; proposition in common (for if there is even one other proposition shared by these worldviews, how might one disqualify &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;that&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; proposition as possibly being the ‘false-maker’?), and (ii) showing that Christianity is not false. The obvious problem is that if (ii) is shown, the TAG becomes superfluous as it is no longer needed; one has already arrived at the truth of Christian theism, and for (i) to be shown, one still has to have an awareness of “every single variation of unbelieving philosophy.”&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:arial, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;This was a rather surprising error to me.  I would have thought, given that Mitch cites Bahnsen's &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Van Til's Apologetic &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(which implies he has read it; see "Note" in paragraph below)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;, &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;that he would see that this objection is far wide of the mark.  It is the axiomatic nature of the presupposition "Christianity is false" which puts it in the role of "false-maker" (as Mitch puts it) and this is clear from the quote which Mitch himself uses above.  Mitch not-so-carefully diverts from Bahnsen's language of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;presupposition &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;to that of mere &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;proposition &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;regarding the role of "Christianity is false" in a given worldview.  One is left to wonder if this is the result of a superficial familiarity with the material being criticized, incompetence or dishonesty.  (I have no good reason to doubt Mitch's competence or honesty.)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:arial, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;If the most basic presupposition of a non-Christian worldview is "not Christianity" (which appears to be definitional, given the above framework), then it is the basic nature of the presupposition which exerts a rational controlling influence on all other worldview content.  It is not merely one proposition among many, floating loose and free in a certain worldview, but is rather foundational.  To miss this is to miss the entire point of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;presuppositional semantics&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; in Van Tillian apologetics, which is a rather large point to miss if one desires to criticize &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;presuppositionalism&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; as such.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:arial, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Mitch rightly recognizes that rebutting one form of non-Christianity does not disprove all other forms of non-Christianity.  However, he appears to severely overestimate the number of categories of non-Christian positions.  It &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;is&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; finite, which means establishing the transcendental premise via Van Til's project of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;reductio ad absurdum &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;is empirically possible.  (In fact, this is a place where the classical apologetic work of someone like Norman Geisler may be of adaptable worth to the presuppositionalist.)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="font-family:arial, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;  "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(Note: Mitch quoted above from &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Van Til's Apologetic&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; p. 277 (Mitch's note #11). Interestingly, the quotation he cites is taken verbatim from footnote 28 of Sean Choi's chapter on the Transcendental Argument in &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Reasons for Faith&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; edited by Norman Geisler and Chad V. Meister. In the following sections of his paper Mitch borrows exclusively from Sean's formulation of the "Fristianity" objection to TAG, as found in &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Reasons for Faith&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;. I would posit that Mitch has not read &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;VTA.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; Why? When I say that Mitch quoted &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;verbatim&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; from Sean's footnote, I mean he even includes the ellipsis where Sean does. The quote above is actually just a footnote on pg. 277 of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;VTA&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;; the elided section states: "(see chap. 7 below)". Now what's the significance of this? Well, in the context of Sean's original footnote, he quotes the footnote because he thinks the statements are the closest thing to a defeater for the Fristianity objection which Bahnsen provided and chapter 7 of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;VTA &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;has nothing to offer in that respect; so why shouldn't Sean leave it out? However, in the context of Mitch's quotation it is presented as a concise summary of Bahnsen's approach to TAG. But chapter 7 of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;VTA &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;is all about apologetic arguments, including nearly 30 pages explicitly detailing Bahnsen's understanding of TAG. Why does Mitch quote a footnote from a footnote as representative of Bahnsen's presentation of TAG rather than interacting with the more detailed and extensive argumentation in chapter 7 of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;the same book&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;? Given Mitch's heavy reliance on Sean's work for both his mistaken formulation of TAG as &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;modus tollens &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;and&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;the Fristianity objection, his verbatim quotation from Sean's footnote, his demonstrated general lack of familiarity with presuppositional semantics and transcendental arguments, and his lack of interaction with Bahnsen's most explicit published work on TAG (ch. 7 of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;VTA&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;), the simplest conclusion is that he hasn't read Bahnsen, he's only read Choi criticizing Bahnsen. Which doesn't count as scholarship.  Anywhere.)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Further, Choi rightly points out that this criterion for distinguishing between the Christian worldview and all others is insufficient. He shows the absurdity of the criteria when applied to another worldview, namely, Fristianity[12]. Fristianity is a worldview adopted by Choi, which is identical to Christianity with the exception of the triune godhead, to make the point that the claim that “non-Christian” worldviews cannot account for X is false, since in whichever way Christianity accounted for X, Fristianity would do so in the same manner. The distinguishing feature of Fristianity is that its godhead is a quadrinity rather than a trinity, it is essentially a “Christianity + 1”. Michael Butler, a defender of TAG, has responded to the Fristianity objection by stating that there is no guarantee that Fristianity will be a coherent worldview after it is laid out and thus cannot be an objection to the TAG[13]. Choi’s reply is that this is simply besides the point as the TAG, if successful, should prove that Fristianity will be incoherent outright and that there is no burden on the Fristian to exemplify coherence. Further, in response to Bahnsen’s statement that there can only two worldviews, “the believing one and the unbelieving one”, Choi notes:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;…on the same basis the hypothetical Fristian could argue as follows: ‘There are only two worldviews, Fristian theism and the unbelieving one’—which is to say, any worldview that has as its presupposition the rejection of Fristian theism. All the alleged worldviews (and here we would have to include Christian theism) are really just variations on a common presuppositional theme that Fristian theism is false&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In other words, we may not simply claim that all worldviews which share a certain proposition are false because some worldviews which share a certain proposition are such. It needs to be shown that the worldviews are false &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;because&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; of the shared proposition. Under Bahnsen’s proposal, an atheist could show one theistic worldview to be incoherent, and reason from this that all theistic worldviews, including Christianity, are incoherent since they all share the same presuppositional theme, that atheism is false. Clearly, an exhaustive examination of possible worldviews is still required if one wants to make the strong claim made in (2b).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Being quite thoroughly familiar with various Fristianity objections, I had to chuckle at this one.  I apologize for it, but I did.  Let's be perfectly clear here: an atheist can get zero cash value out of the Fristianity objection in debate with a Christian.  Are you planning on being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and "Fred" anytime soon, Mitch?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Fristianity doesn't refute the Christian TAG, it merely shows how closely a worldview needs to mirror Christianity in order to provide the necessary preconditions for intelligibility.  If an atheist's positive epistemic resources are so depleted in responding to a Christian apologist that he must fall back onto the Fristianity objection in order to respond to TAG then the Christian need only ask whether or not the atheist would like to become a Fristian or a Christian.  If he wishes to adopt neither (and maintain his status as a rational being) then the whole objection is superfluous to the debate.  Let me emphasize this point: Fristianity doesn't overturn the TAG for Christianity, but leaves Christianity and Fristianity as the only epistemically viable worldviews, which would seem to be an undesirable argument for an atheist to present, given the extreme similarity between Fristianity and Christianity.  While Fristianity does present some intramural issues for discussion regarding the strong modal TAG amongst presuppositionalists, it is of no value to the atheist interloper.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Let me humbly suggest that Mitch should study presuppositionalism qua presuppositionalism &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;before&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; criticizing, rather than merely assimilating various second-order criticisms of presuppositionalism.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The Transcendental Argument for the Non-Existence of God&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;I would like to call attention to a statement made by Bahnsen in the excerpt taken from his debate regarding the Christian’s justification for logical principles: “From a Christian standpoint, we have an answer – obviously they reflect the thinking of God. They are, if you will, a reflection of the way God thinks and expects us to think.” [14]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;This is supposed to be the factor that separates Christian worldviews from non-Christian worldviews, but the claim seems rather vague. What does it mean to say that the justification for logical principles is the fact that they reflect the thinking of God?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Michael Martin asks a similar question and formulates a Transcendental Argument for the Non-Existence of God (TANG) which he defended against criticisms from John Frame.[15]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Martin stated[16]:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(130, 128, 128); font-style: normal; line-height: normal;  "&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;How might TANG proceed? Consider logic. Logic presupposes that its principles are necessarily true. However, according to the brand of Christianity assumed by TAG, God created everything, including logic; or at least everything, including logic, is dependent on God. But if something is created by or is dependent on God, it is not necessary–it is contingent on God. And if principles of logic are contingent on God, they are not logically necessary. Moreover, if principles of logic are contingent on God, God could change them. Thus, God could make the law of noncontradiction false; in other words, God could arrange matters so that a proposition and its negation were true at the same time. But this is absurd. How could God arrange matters so that New Zealand is south of China and that New Zealand is not south of it? So, one must conclude that logic is not dependent on God, and, insofar as the Christian world view assumes that logic so dependent, it is false.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Let me just briefly point out that Martin has not presented a "transcendental argument" for anything here.  "Logic presupposes that its principles are necessarily true."  This is neither transcendental nor an argument.  The remaining section is a &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;reductio ad absurdum&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;, not a TA.  Martin has simply used the common atheistic tactic of inverting a theistic argument and calling it something akin to that theistic argument, demonstrating the persistent parasitic nature of much atheistic argumentation.  And, as Frame points out below, it is a straw man.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Frame’s response[17] stated that:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Logic is neither above God nor arbitrarily decreed by God. Its ultimate basis is in God’s eternal nature. God is a rational God and necessarily so. Therefore logic is necessary. Human logical systems don’t always reflect God’s logic perfectly. But insofar as they do, they are necessarily true.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Bahnsen and Frame’s defence of the TAG depend upon two claims:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(A) Logical principles (such as the Law of Noncontradiction) exist because God exists and the principles are reflections of his thinking[18]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(B)  Logical principles cannot be changed by God as their ultimate basis is in God’s nature, and God is necessarily a rational God.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;A Logical Euthyphro Application&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In analyzing both (A) and (B) it seems that the famous Euthyphro dilemma can be applied to the TAG, substituting notions of ‘goodness’ for ‘logical principles’. The dilemma could perhaps be expressed as the following: does God think in a certain way because it is logical to do so, or is thinking in a certain way logical because God does it? If the first horn of the dilemma holds it seems clear that logical principles exist independently of God. If the second horn of the dilemma holds logical principles seem to be under the whim of God, meaning that God could change them. A TAG defender might respond by saying that this dilemma is a false one, and advocate similar to Frame that logical principles have their basis in God’s nature and are thus neither external, nor arbitrary. Firstly, this seems to add some confusion: are logical principles based on God’s thinking, or on his nature? Frame’s above statement in response to Michael Martin seems to indicate that both are true: logical principles reflect the thinking of God and the thinking of God has its basis in God’s nature.[19]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Frame essentially makes the claim that it is &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;logically impossible&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; for the nature of God to change. But the standard Frame is using to identify logical possibility is allegedly the nature of God. As such, his claim appears to be represented more accurately as:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(C)  Based on God’s nature it is logically impossible for God’s nature to be different because God is necessarily a rational God&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;This does not seem to assist in any regard as what is rational &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;is&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; allegedly determined by God’s nature. So to argue that God’s nature &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;must&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; be the way it is &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;because&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; God is necessarily rational seems to only appeal to a standard of rationality that is separate from God, otherwise it is clearly circular.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In what manner would it be the case that God’s nature was &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;not&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; rational? It does not seem that a God who forms the basis of logical principles and thereby is the standard of rationality can ever be irrational (though he may certainly appear irrational when judged by a foreign standard). That is to say, if one wants to state that the Christian God forms the basis of rationality and the logical principles thereby in effect cannot be anything other than what they are, they must be appealing to a standard of logic that is separate from God’s nature as to appeal solely to God’s nature does not sufficiently answer the question; it is a non-answer.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The problem with Mitch's Euthyphro dilemma is that it is "clearly circular."  The Christian's argument is that logical laws are a reflection of God's thought which is in accordance with God's nature, which are all necessary.  The first horn of the Euthyphro Dilemma then begs the question in asserting that there is a meaningful sense in which logic is independent of the thought of God.  But no argument is presented for this non-theistic conception of logic; not even a definition is given.  If the Christian is correct, then positing logical principles which exist independently of God is the real "non-answer."  Mitch says that it is circular for a Christian to state that God's nature is the ultimate basis for rationality, while assuming that logic is independent of God in order to prove that logic is independent of God.  I don't think Mitch has quite yet grasped the radical nature of presuppositional antithesis.  But I hope he does.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;God and the Abstract&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In his TANG, Martin stated that if logical principles depend on God in any way, they lose their logical necessity and become contingent. Frame countered by making the claim that though dependent on God, the principles of logic have their basis in the nature of God and because the nature of God is necessary, so too are the logical principles.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;An obvious defeater to Frame’s claim, and subsequently the TAG, would be to show that not only are logical principles not dependent on God, but they cannot be so dependent.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The dependence relationship between “God exists” and “logical principles exist” seems problematic. If God is the source of all things other than himself, and he depends on nothing for his existence, surely the relationship must be asymmetrical (with primacy granted to God), but it appears not to be.  It can be shown, in fact, that God depends on logical principles for his existence.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Consider:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(4)   Necessarily, &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;x&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; depends on &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;y &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;for its existence iff &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;y &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;were not to exist, neither would &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;x&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;[20]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Lewis’ counterfactual semantics tell us that ‘any proposition is counterfactually implied by a necessarily false proposition’. Since “logical principles do not exist” is a necessarily false proposition, it counterfactually implies any proposition whatsoever.[21] So it is also true that if logical principles did not exist, neither would God. Thus, God depends on logical principles for his existence.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The relationship between the existence of logical principles and the existence of God would be asymmetrical iff God depended on nothing for his being and logical principles depended wholly on him. In this regard, the relationship of dependence is one-way; logical principles depend on God but not vice versa. If dependence is asymmetrical, then logic cannot depend on God as it has been shown that God depends on logic.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The asymmetrical relationship can be depicted further: where &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;P&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; refers to logical principles and &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Q&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; refers to God. If &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;P&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; depends on &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Q &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;asymmetrically, then the worlds in which &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;P&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; is true must be a proper subset of the worlds in which &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Q&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; is true. Since it is the case that the principles of logic hold in every world, and the set of all worlds is not a proper subset of any other set of worlds, the laws of logic cannot depend on &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;anything&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;, including God.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In order to overcome this problem, one could deny the &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;necessary&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; existence of logical principles. This seems antithetical to the presuppositionalist position which seeks to show that the only way to make sense out of logical necessity is through the existence of the Christian God. Indeed, the opposite becomes true; the only way that logical principles can be necessary is if “logical principles depend on God” is false. One could further deny the claim that “God depends on nothing else for his existence”, but this seems incompatible with Christian theism and perhaps even with a more general notion of God.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: normal; "&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In this section the argumentation becomes rather muddled.  Given the nature of the points under contention (the existence of God and the relationship between God and logic), to argue that "logical principles do not exist" counterfactually implies that God depends on logical principles for his existence is to beg the question in a rather bald and obvious sort of way. How about, "God does not exist" is a necessarily false statement? Given that TAG is intended to argue for the necessary existence of God, to assume the contingency of God's existence upon logic in order to prove God is contingent upon logic is, well, unpersuasive (to put it mildly). Any use of subjunctive conditionals in arguing about the necessity of God's existence will necessarily beg the question, given the nature of necessity. Necessarily. :) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Again, Mitch has simply assumed that logic is independent of God in order to prove the same.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Another possible solution is twofold. One must first accept that abstract objects are the thoughts of God. This is not problematic for the TAG proponent as they have already explicitly stated that this is the case. One must then further embrace the Doctrine of Divine Simplicity (DDS) and accept that God is identical with each of his attributes and thoughts. Under this view, the statements “God exists” and “Logical principles exist” express the same proposition. This eliminates the problem because any proposition is counterfactually dependent on itself. But it is not clear that DDS is a coherent option[22]. Indeed it is not clear that the principles of logic can be thought to be attributes of God, in any capacity. This problem seems even more severe for the Christian. If the proponent of the TAG attempts to establish the conclusion that the Christian God exists, but has to accept the DDS to do so (as per the above objection) it is unclear as to how they would reconcile the fact that God is identical with his attributes and the belief that he is internally distinct as a Trinity. Indeed, if DDS is coherent, how can there be any distinction whatsoever between God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit? The DDS seems wholly incoherent with Christian theism.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;As such, in order to avoid the consequence of conceding that God is not entirely sovereign, one must either (i) deny that logical principles are necessary (ii) deny Christian theism. Both are unacceptable consequences for the proponent of the TAG.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;We're then treated to a rather brief, cursory series of assertions regarding the incompatibility of divine simplicity with Trinitarianism and the existence of logic. Frankly, since no argument is presented, no refutation is necessary. All that is demonstrated here is a thorough-going unfamiliarity with the standard works on Trinitarianism and divine simplicity.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;The Mind of God&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;There is yet another respect in which the TAG is vague. It states that the Christian worldview can account for the laws of logic because they have their basis as reflections of God’s thought. Presumably, this means that the reason why the Law of Non-Contradiction (LNC) is the way it is depends on the fact that God cannot avoid thinking in accordance with it due to his nature as logical. Even temporarily disregarding the previous objections, this claim seems dubious. This justification or grounding of the principles of logic does not seem to necessitate any transcendental reference. Consider Bob the Conventionalist[23]; he is a normal human being. Even as a conventionalist, Bob cannot help but think in accordance with the LNC, for how could Bob visualize the effects of a proposition that is both true and false simultaneously? If, as per Bahnsen’s statement, logical principles are reflections of the way God thinks and further if it is true that the LNC exists and holds because God cannot think that p and not-p, surely Bob’s own inability to think that P and not-P fulfills the same justification requirement.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;One foreseeable objection is that Bob’s self-grounding does not explain the seeming universality of the LNC. However, it is impossible to think of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;anyone&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; in existence who could visualize the effects of a proposition which violated the LNC[24] and in this regard the LNC is universally self-grounded.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;In the aforementioned debate, Bahnsen criticized conventionalism for being arbitrary and potentially giving way to people with contradictory logical systems. Though it is hard to imagine someone who has adopted a logical system in which there is no LNC or equivalent mechanism. Such a system would be as trivial as a magic eight-ball that answers “yes” to every question[25]. It is difficult to see why Bob or any of his friends would adopt a system with no mechanism to differentiate between any propositions. On pragmatic grounds, it is entirely useless.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;One may make the case that Bahnsen has misunderstood conventionalism[26], and one might further make the more interesting point of asking how God accounts for the laws of logic. If it is even &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;possible&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; that God justifies his use of logic in either an a priori, or conventionalist manner[27] premise (2b) of the TAG can be further rejected.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;What might it mean to say that God justifies logic in an a priori manner? Bahnsen’s criticisms of an a priori justification can be found in his debate with Stein:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;But if you don’t take that approach and want to justify the laws of logic in some a priori fashion, that is apart from experience, something that [Stein] suggests when he says these things are self-verified. Then we can ask why the laws of logic are universal, unchanging, and invariant truths – why they, in fact, apply repeatedly in the realm of contingent experience.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;He argues that an a priori justification of the laws of logic does nothing to explain their universality. But, the fact that the laws of logic would be known a priori to be logically necessary does seem to explain the universality in a ‘self-verifying’ manner; they are necessarily true. One might further press to ask why it is the case that they are necessarily true rather than not and one possibility is that they are justifiable in some Platonic manner, existing as brute, primitive facts. In essence, this is presumably how God would view his a priori justification. For God, these logical principles are “just there” even if &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;necessarily &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;“just there”.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;It may also be possible that God justifies logical principles conventionally, assuming them for a purpose.  One possible objection is that if this is the case, God could have done otherwise (chosen a different convention). It seems that if there are multiple sufficient conventionalist justifications of logical principles, God certainly would possess the capability to select the best possible and employ it on pragmatic grounds.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;If these justifications are even possible, then (2b) in its current form becomes demonstrably false. Of course, it may be reworded to state:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 15px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: auto; width: 398px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(240, 244, 247); border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-right-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-bottom-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); border-left-color: rgb(217, 228, 239); background-position: initial initial; "&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#000000;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;(2b*) It is necessary that: no human forms of either a priori, a posteriori or conventionalist justification will justify the laws of logic&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;It would be the duty of the TAG proponent to develop an explanation as to why it is either impossible that God justify logical principles in the aforementioned two manners or why a human version of the same justification must necessarily fail.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;One might object to (2b*) stating that a divine form of a priori justification or conventionalism would not differ sufficiently from a human form but space does not permit a treatment of this claim here.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Finally, we have&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; a section where logic is said to be both conventional while necessary and universal.  This is rather fun.  It's like something from Alice in Wonderland.  "Sentence first - verdict afterwards!"&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;strong style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Conclusion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;Given (i) the initial objections, (ii) the vague and troubled explanations of what it means for God’s nature to be logical, (iii) the lack of asymmetry in the relationship between logical principles and God’s existence, and (iv) the possibility that God accounts for logic with the same justifications criticized by the TAG, it is my proposal that, pending further defence, the Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God be considered unsound and unsuccessful in its goal of establishing the existence of the Christian God[28].&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 20px; "&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;My conclusion, in brief: the paper appears to be a scatter-gun reiteration of information found via cursory internet research rather than a responsible familiarity with the standard works on the subject under consideration.  While I'm happy to see a bright young philosopher taking an interest in Van Tillian apologetics (even if it is a critical interest), I would recommend doing a far more thorough study of the subject.  I might start &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.reformed.org/apologetics/index.html?mainframe=/apologetics/why_I_believe_cvt.html"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;here&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;.  And I might read to understand the matter for myself &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt;before&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span"  style="color:#FFFF00;"&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"&gt; attempting to criticize, not vice versa.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-870527098984885032?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/870527098984885032/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/considered-response-to-mitchell-leblanc.html#comment-form' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/870527098984885032'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/870527098984885032'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/considered-response-to-mitchell-leblanc.html' title='A Considered Response to Mitchell Leblanc on The Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-6060811710077692439</id><published>2010-02-14T16:23:00.002-05:00</published><updated>2010-02-14T16:27:01.225-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Haiti'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='music'/><title type='text'>Far Away by Lecrae</title><content type='html'>&lt;object width="580" height="360"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0rerU_NYwD8&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1&amp;amp;rel=0&amp;amp;color1=0xe1600f&amp;amp;color2=0xfebd01&amp;amp;border=1"&gt;&lt;param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"&gt;&lt;param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0rerU_NYwD8&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1&amp;amp;rel=0&amp;amp;color1=0xe1600f&amp;amp;color2=0xfebd01&amp;amp;border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="580" height="360"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Purchase this song &lt;a href="http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/far-away-single/id354627675"&gt;on Itunes&lt;/a&gt; to donate to Haiti relief.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-6060811710077692439?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/6060811710077692439/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/far-away-by-lecrae.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/6060811710077692439'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/6060811710077692439'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/far-away-by-lecrae.html' title='Far Away by Lecrae'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-4141028789062988669</id><published>2010-02-13T22:31:00.001-05:00</published><updated>2010-02-13T22:32:53.589-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Islam'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='missions'/><title type='text'>A Prayer for Muslims</title><content type='html'>"Almighty God, our Heavenly Father, who hast made of one blood all nations and hast promised that many shall come from the East and sit down with Abraham in thy kingdom: We pray for thy prodigal children in Muslim lands who are still afar off, that they may be brought nigh by the blood of Christ. Look upon them in pity, because they are ignorant of thy truth.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Take away pride of intellect and blindness of heart, and reveal to them the surpassing beauty and power of thy Son Jesus Christ. Convince them of their sin in rejecting the atonement of the only Savior. Give moral courage to those who love thee, that they may boldly confess thy name.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hasten the day of religious freedom in Turkey, Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and North Africa. Send forth reapers where the harvest is ripe, and faithful plowmen to break furrows in lands still neglected. May the tribes of Africa and Malaysia not fall prey to Islam but be won for Christ. Bless the ministry of healing in every hospital, and the ministry of love at every church and mission. May all Muslim children in mission schools be led to Christ and accept him as their personal Savior.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Strengthen converts, restore backsliders, and give all those who labor among Muslims the tenderness of Christ, so that bruised reeds may become pillars of his church, and smoking flaxwicks burning and shining lights. Make bare thine arm, O God, and show thy power. All our expectation is from thee.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son in the Muslim world, and fulfill through him the prayer of Abraham thy friend, "O, that Ishmael might live before thee." For Jesus’ sake. Amen."  -Samuel Zwemer, "Apostle to Islam"&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-4141028789062988669?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/4141028789062988669/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/prayer-for-muslims.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/4141028789062988669'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/4141028789062988669'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/prayer-for-muslims.html' title='A Prayer for Muslims'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-8236246956144129350</id><published>2010-02-06T16:36:00.007-05:00</published><updated>2010-02-07T09:14:24.144-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='exegesis'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='law and gospel'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='New Covenant Theology'/><title type='text'>Three Horizons of Matthew 5:17-20</title><content type='html'>&lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt; Matt 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.&lt;/span&gt; (1)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“The theological and canonical ramifications of one’s exegetical conclusions on this pericope are so numerous that discussion becomes freighted with the intricacies of biblical theology.  At stake are the relation between the testaments, the place of law in the context of the gospel, and the relation of this pericope to other NT passages that unambiguously affirm that certain parts of the law have been abrogated as obsolete.” (2)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the opening chapters of Matthew’s gospel (1:1-4:16), the reader is barraged with a flood of Old Testament quotations and allusions which serve to establish Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, the righteous Redeemer of his people. (3)  Jesus’ messianic message explicitly echoes the prophetic message of John the Baptist: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matt 4:17).  With Christ’s disciples as the primary audience, Matthew begins his account of Jesus’ ministry with the famous Sermon on the Mount (5:1-7:28), giving the messianic exposition of the nature of the kingdom of heaven and the character of its inhabitants. (4)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Sermon opens with the “Beatitude” inclusio (set apart in context by the repetition of the phrase “for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” in verses 3 and 10, respectively), declaring the attitudes of those in the kingdom of heaven, which are in stark contrast with the natural expectations and attitudes of sinners.  The Beatitudes allude to the blessings pronounced for Mosaic covenant-keepers, (5) the wisdom literature of the Psalms and Proverbs, (6) as well as the prophetic promises of God as the redeemer of His oppressed people. (7)  We see here the inauguration of an eschatological kingdom which promises future, eternal blessings as well as present, temporal suffering.  These beatitudes prophetically foreshadow the absolute righteousness of Christ’s life (which led to his being persecuted to death), even as they masterfully reveal the progression of righteousness in the life of his disciples, from spiritual bankruptcy (vs. 3) to rejoicing, not merely in spite of, but because of persecution for righteousness’ sake (vs. 12).  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is important to take note of the shift in language from verse 10 to 11.  The disciples are first told generally, “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake”; this teaching is then amplified and personalized when Jesus tells them directly, “Blessed are you when others… persecute you… on my account.”  This parallel subtly identifies “Christ” and “righteousness,” for persecution because of righteousness is persecution because of Christ. (8)  This equation sets the stage for Christ’s amazing declaration in verse 17.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After implicitly identifying himself with righteousness, the Messiah announces his own position in the progress of divine revelation: he came to fulfill, not abolish, all the Law and the Prophets.  With these words, Matthew opens another inclusio regarding the relationship of Christ to the Law and Prophets (which does not conclude until chapter 7:12).  At the heart of this pericope is righteousness: the righteousness necessary within the kingdom of heaven.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is important to recognize the canonical location of this teaching, because it is not always easy to discern whether Christ’s teaching is intended primarily for his immediate audience (as they live under the old covenant) or if his statements are intended to have a broader application to the New Covenant era which he was inaugurating. (9)  It would seem that these verses play a significant role in the transitional period of revelation in moving from prophetic promise to messianic fulfillment.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The direct contrast in verse 17 is between the two verbs: “abolish” and “fulfill,” with the emphasis being placed on the positive aspect of fulfillment. (10)  An unhelpful dualism has crept into many interpretations of this verse, reading “fulfill” as though it has two different senses, one concerning the Law and another regarding the Prophets.  Christ is said to fulfill the Law by obeying its commands and to fulfill the Prophets by fulfilling their predictions. (11)  However, there are two problems with this interpretation: to “obey” the Law does not contrast with “abolish,” and there is no indication here that Christ is equivocating in his use of the term “fulfill.”  It is far more natural to recognize that the whole Old Testament has a prophetic element to it; even the commandments of the Law point forward to the coming Messiah’s ethical reign.  Christ doesn’t merely obey the Law; he is the righteous archetype which the holy and good Law foreshadowed.  This even implies that without Jesus the Law would, in some sense, be unfulfilled. (12)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Jesus then emphasizes the abiding nature of the Law in verses 18-19, saying that it will not pass away until heaven and earth pass away, that is, until the new heaven and earth are consummated at Christ’s second coming. (13)  These verses have produced much controversy regarding the role of the Mosaic Law in the Christian life.  One of the most time-honored traditional ways of interpreting this statement of Christ is to adopt the tripartite distinction of moral, civil and ceremonial laws in the Old Testament, arguing that Christ is referring here to the abiding force of the moral law alone, summarized in the Ten Commandments. (14)  However, this distinction is not only illogical (for all laws are moral laws by definition), it also contradicts Christ’s statement affirming “not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law,” which would rather obviously include civil and ceremonial iotas and dots.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This statement of Christ is finely attuned to have direct application to both his contemporary Jewish audience and the still-being-inaugurated body of Christian disciples.  By identifying himself as righteousness and emphasizing his own role as the one who fulfills the Old Testament, Christ is introducing the fact that he is “the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe” (Rom 10:4). (15)  It is not merely that his teaching “intensifies” the commands of the Law while his life fulfills the prophecies of the Prophets, but it is his entire person which fulfills the entire Old Testament.  He “fulfills all righteousness” (Matt 3:15).  He points to himself through the Law, so that his contemporaries have no warrant for disobeying the Law, while also introducing the authoritative ethical fulfillment found in the kingdom of heaven.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As the King of the kingdom of heaven, he is the Law.  Everything he does is inherently good and loving, while everything he says is incomparably prophetic and wise.  His every statement and action simultaneously obeys and surpasses the law in righteousness, filling it full to overflowing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As Priest he puts an end to sacrifices, not by abrogation through divine fiat, but by permanently fulfilling the sacrificial system in his own substitutionary death.  Its principles abide still, though the practice has ceased by being gloriously surpassed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As Prophet he is the pinnacle of revelation.  General revelation and special revelation are conjoined in the person and work of Jesus Christ, such that our understanding of all of Scripture and the universe must be filtered through Christ or we will misapply it, to our own detriment.  Our understanding of how Christ fulfills the law must be right if we are to be “great,” and not “least,” in the kingdom of heaven (vv. 18-19).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This righteousness is alluded to in the next statement: “Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”  This indicative righteousness comes into greater focus in the imperative of verse 48, “You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”  Between these two statements outlining the absolute, perfect righteousness of the kingdom of heaven are the six “antitheses.”  These antitheses (“You have heard it said…, but I tell you…”) are often represented as an “intensification” of the Mosaic Law or rabbinic traditions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yet this interpretation misunderstands the preceding statement of Christ regarding his personal fulfillment of the Old Testament while also misrepresenting the nature of the Mosaic Law.  The requirements of perfect righteousness and godliness are not something which Christ introduced in the Sermon; they were present in the old covenant as well (Deut 6:5; Lev 19:1-2, 18).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A detailed analysis of the numerous implications of Christ’s personal fulfillment of the Old Testament would go beyond the scope of this paper.  However, one fulfillment theme needs to be expounded clearly if we are to properly understand the antitheses, and, more broadly, the ethical relationship between the two testaments of Scripture.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Christ’s fulfillment of the Old Testament introduces a motif of what I will call &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;emphasis inversion&lt;/span&gt; between the testaments (a specific aspect of the general “lesser-to-greater” theme in the progress of biblical revelation), whereby the teaching of Christ emphasizes something which was present, but often overshadowed, in the Law.  Christ’s fulfillment inverts the emphasis without abolishing the Law.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By way of example, the Law of Moses consisted of six hundred thirteen imperatives written on stone tablets, while the New Covenant Law of Christ is written on hearts of flesh by the Holy Spirit (Jer 31:33; Ezek 36:26; Heb 8).  The old covenant emphasized the physical progeny of Abraham, ethnic Israel, as God’s chosen people (Deut 7:6), while the New Covenant emphasizes the spiritual seed of Abraham by faith as those who are truly God’s elect (Gal 3:7).  Physical, national, historically-elect Israel typologically foreshadowed the New Covenant reality of spiritual, global, eternally-elect Israel; (16) and it is Christ who fulfills both, “For all the promises of God find their Yes in him” (2 Cor 1:20).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Often in Scripture, physical types of the Old Testament are fulfilled in spiritual antitypes in the New.  The spiritual realities were present in the OT, but the emphasis is inverted in the NT, placing the physical elements in the background and bringing what is spiritual to the foreground (Heb 9:23-24).  Ethically, the inversion of emphasis from the Old Testament Law to its fulfillment in Christ is a movement from imperative-based to indicative-driven ethics.  The Sermon on the Mount contains fifty imperatives in one hundred sentences, but still maintains a thoroughly descriptive tone throughout, using three hundred twenty non-command verbs. (17)&lt;br /&gt;  &lt;br /&gt;Those who interpret the Sermon on the Mount as simply the moral teaching of “a new kind of rabbi” miss the fact that no one can attain the perfect righteousness required for admission to Christ’s kingdom (Rom 3:10-18).  However, to interpret the Sermon as merely the intensification of Old Testament morality equally misses the point.  The Sermon is not merely given to display humanity’s sinful inability to obey God’s laws; it does that, but it also simultaneously reveals the redemptive solution to this fallen condition in the perfect righteousness of Christ.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is his absolute righteousness, as declared on this mount, which leads him inexorably to another mountain, Calvary, where the same perfect righteousness is fully and permanently displayed.  It is this perfect righteousness which is imputed to all believers and Christ’s cross is the example of righteousness for all believers.  In this way, the indicative of Christ’s righteous love surpasses even the imperative commands to love God and neighbor, not in the sense that the imperative is not binding (it is), but that its fulfillment displays a love greater than the letter of the command could ever convey.  The indicative of Christ’s forensic justification of believers provides the necessary condition for imperative exhortations to ethical sanctification, which are often summarized in the statement “Be who you are in Christ.”  Put more simply, the basis for ethical behavior is union with Christ.  The Sermon reveals humanity’s complete moral inability, displays Christ’s perfect moral righteousness and implies the resolution for the chasm between the two: the Gospel, whereby we become the righteousness of God (2 Cor 5:21).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is within this larger epochal/canonical context of fulfilled righteousness and prophetic emphasis inversion that the antitheses must be understood.  The antitheses do not simply dispel an old law and create a new one; they are a call to see the world as Christ does, to live and love as he does. (18)  Even the imperatival statements of the antitheses function within the larger flow of the Sermon as exhortations to righteous living rather than specific, literal commands.  If read without consideration to the broader canonical themes surrounding the Sermon, it is easy to understand why so many view the antitheses as merely newer, more intense commandments.  While much could be said regarding each antithesis, I will attempt to show that the motif of emphasis inversion aids in gaining a clear understanding of the way in which the antitheses introduce Christ’s fulfillment, and not abolition, of the Law. (19)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first antithesis shows an inversion of ethical emphasis, in that the solemn act of making sacrifice for sin ought to be interrupted for the sake of immediate reconciliation with an offended brother, alluding to the fact that mercy should be desired over sacrifice (Matt 9:13; 12:7).  The hyperbole of the second antithesis regarding eye-plucking and hand-cutting no less shockingly displays the inversion of emphasis from physical adultery to adultery of the heart, moving from the emphasis on external conformity to a focus on internal conviction.  It is better to be maimed physically than to suffer forever spiritually.  Rather than explicitly forbidding divorce in the third antithesis, Christ explains the heinous character of such an action, while also showing that what is permissible is not always righteous (1 Cor 10:23).  He also authoritatively expands the Mosaic divorce laws by declaring remarriage after improper divorce to be adultery.  The fourth antithesis emphasizes the absoluteness of the Creator, such that to swear by anything is to implicitly swear by God, making all oaths irreverent oaths and forthrightness the only acceptable pattern of speech.  The fifth antithesis brings into view the complex, paradoxical relationship of mercy to justice in the righteousness of the kingdom of heaven (which also finds its ultimate resolution at the Cross), by exhorting disciples not to resist those who are evil and to give liberally to all whom ask.  The final antithesis emphasizes the Law of Love, showing that the righteousness of the kingdom of heaven is most clearly viewed in the righteous love of the King, who even shows grace and love toward his enemies.  This emphasis displays the counterintuitive nature of supernatural righteousness.  Out of this love flows all good things, from sunshine to eternal life, and we are able to obediently join in that love through union with Christ.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The antitheses do not explicitly abrogate any OT commandment, and neither do they merely exposit or intensify them.  “What is the dominant note, hinted at in the emphatic, ‘I say to you,’ testified to by the crowds at the conclusion of the Sermon and observed in all the antitheses, is the independent, authoritative teaching of Jesus, which is neither derived from nor explicitly related to the OT.” (20)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Our interpretation of all of Scripture must be performed with an eye to Christ the Final Prophet who fulfills the Prophets and declares the Way, Christ the Righteous King who fulfills the Law and declares the Truth, and Christ the Resurrected High Priest who brings abundant Life out of death.  All of our understanding of hermeneutics and its ethical implications are refracted through the crèche, the cross and the crown of Christ who fulfills all revelation and righteousness.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1 The Holy Bible, English Standard Version (Wheaton: Good News Publishers, 2002), 810. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2 D.A. Carson, The Expositor's Bible Commentary: Matthew Chapters 1 Through 12 (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1995), 141.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3 G.K. Beale and D.A. Carson, Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2007), 1-20. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;4 D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Studies in the Sermon on the Mount (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1976), 18-20.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;5 William Hendriksen, Matthew (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 1973), 261.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; 6 Ben Witherington III, Matthew (Macon: Smyth &amp; Helwys Publishing, Inc, 2006), 118. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;7 G.K. Beale and D.A. Carson, Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2007), 20.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; 8 In each case the blessed ones will be persecuted e[neken ("because of") “righteousness” or “me” (Christ).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;9 Douglas J. Moo, "The Law of Christ as the Fulfillment of the Law of Moses: A Modified Lutheran View," in Five Views on Law and Gospel, ed. Stanley N. Gundry (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1996), 323. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;10 R.T. France, Matthew (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1985), 114. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;11 John Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary: New Testament (Colorado Springs: David C. Cook, 1983), 30.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;12 William Hendriksen, Matthew (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 1973), 288.   Douglas J. Moo, The Best in Theology, Volume One, ed. J.I. Packer (Carol Stream: Christianity Today, Inc, 1987), 106. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;13 D.A. Carson, The Expositor's Bible Commentary: Matthew Chapters 1 Through 12 (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1995), 144.  Contrast this with the statement of Christ in Mt 24:35, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.” &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;14 John Calvin, Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2005), 279-280.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;15 Compare the parallel passage in Luke 16, particularly verse 16, “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;16 John Frame, The Doctrine of God (Phillipsburg: P&amp;R Publishing Company, 2002), 317-330. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;17 Daniel M. Doriani, The Sermon on the Mount (Phillipsburg: P&amp;R Publishing Company, 2006), 8.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;18 Daniel M. Doriani, The Sermon on the Mount (Phillipsburg: P&amp;R Publishing Company, 2006), 9.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;19 For brevity's sake, I will forego any discussion regarding whether the antitheses refer to the Mosaic Law or rabbinic traditions (or both).  In any case, if my interpretation of verse seventeen is correct then there is no threat of contradiction even if Christ is referring at any point to the Mosaic Law proper.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;20 Douglas J. Moo, The Best in Theology, Volume One, ed. J.I. Packer (Carol Stream: Christianity Today, Inc, 1987), 113.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;BIBLIOGRAPHY&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Beale, G. K. and D.A. Carson. Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament. Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2007. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Calvin, John. Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists. Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2005. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Carson, D.A. The Expositor's Bible Commentary: Matthew Chapters 1 Through 12. Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1995.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Doriani, Daniel M. The Sermon on the Mount. Phillipsburg: P&amp;R Publishing Company, 2006.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Frame, John. The Doctrine of God. Phillipsburg: P&amp;R Publishing Company, 2002. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;France, R.T. Matthew. Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1985. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hendriksen, William. Matthew. Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 1973. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lloyd-Jones, D. Martyn. Studies in the Sermon on the Mount. Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1976.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Moo, Douglas J. "The Law of Christ as the Fulfillment of the Law of Moses: A Modified Lutheran View." In Five Views on Law and Gospel, ed. Stanley N. Gundry. Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1996&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Moo, Douglas J. The Best in Theology, Volume One. Edited by J.I. Packer. Carol Stream: Christianity Today, Inc, 1987.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Holy Bible, English Standard Version. Wheaton: Good News Publishers, 2002. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Walvoord, John and Roy B. Zuck. The Bible Knowledge Commentary: New Testament. Colorado Springs: David C. Cook, 1983.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Witherington, Ben, III. Matthew. Macon: Smyth &amp; Helwys Publishing, Inc, 2006.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-8236246956144129350?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/8236246956144129350/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/three-horizons-of-matthew-517-20.html#comment-form' title='4 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/8236246956144129350'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/8236246956144129350'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/three-horizons-of-matthew-517-20.html' title='Three Horizons of Matthew 5:17-20'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>4</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-1002881102893623851</id><published>2010-02-02T10:23:00.005-05:00</published><updated>2010-02-02T15:55:27.526-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Empty Selves</title><content type='html'>"Finally, it is not just scholars and ministers who will benefit from training in philosophy, but also laypeople who need to be intellectually engaged if our culture is to be effectively reformed.  Our churches are unfortunately overly-populated with people whose minds, as Christians, are going to waste.  As Malik observed, they may be spiritually regenerate, but their minds have not been converted; they still think like nonbelievers.  Despite their Christian commitment, they remain largely empty selves.  What is an empty self?  An empty self is a person who is passive, sensate, busy and hurried, incapable of developing an interior life.  Such a person is inordinately individualistic, infantile and narcissistic.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"Imagine now a church filled with such people.  What will be the theological understanding, the evangelistic courage, the cultural penetration of such a church?  If the interior life does not really matter all that much, why should one spend the time trying to develop an intellectual, spiritually mature life?  If someone is basically passive, he will just not make the effort to read, preferring instead to be entertained.  If a person is sensate in orientation, then music, magazines filled with pictures, and visual media in general will be more important than mere words on a page or abstract thoughts.  If one is hurried and distracted, one will have little patience for theoretical knowledge and too short an attention span to stay with an idea while it is being carefully developed.  And if someone is overly individualistic, infantile and narcissistic, what &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;will&lt;/span&gt; that person read, if he reads at all?  Books about Christian celebrities, Christian romance novels imitating the worst that the world has to offer, Christian self-help books filled with slogans, simplistic moralizing, lots of stories and pictures, and in adequate diagnoses of the problems facing the reader.  What will &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;not&lt;/span&gt; be read are books that equip people to develop a well-reasoned, theological understanding of the Christian faith and to assume their role in the broader work of the kingdom of God.  Such a church will become impotent to stand against the powerful forces of secularism that threaten to wash away Christian ideas in a flood of thoughtless pluralism and misguided scientism.  Such a church will be tempted to measure her success largely in terms of numbers - numbers achieved by cultural accommodation to empty selves.  In this way, the church will become her own grave digger; for her means of short-term "success" will turn out in the long run to be the very thing that buries her."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-J. P. Moreland and William Lane Craig, &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview&lt;/span&gt; p. 5&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-1002881102893623851?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/1002881102893623851/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/empty-selves.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1002881102893623851'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1002881102893623851'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/empty-selves.html' title='Empty Selves'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-255595586104549765</id><published>2010-01-26T19:58:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2010-01-26T19:59:59.591-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='poetry'/><title type='text'>Typography</title><content type='html'>&lt;object width="400" height="270"&gt;&lt;param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /&gt;&lt;param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3829682&amp;amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;amp;show_title=1&amp;amp;show_byline=1&amp;amp;show_portrait=0&amp;amp;color=&amp;amp;fullscreen=1" /&gt;&lt;embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3829682&amp;amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;amp;show_title=1&amp;amp;show_byline=1&amp;amp;show_portrait=0&amp;amp;color=&amp;amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="270"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://vimeo.com/3829682"&gt;Typography&lt;/a&gt; from &lt;a href="http://vimeo.com/ronniebruce"&gt;Ronnie Bruce&lt;/a&gt; on &lt;a href="http://vimeo.com"&gt;Vimeo&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-255595586104549765?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/255595586104549765/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/01/typography.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/255595586104549765'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/255595586104549765'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2010/01/typography.html' title='Typography'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-9154314235315117642</id><published>2009-12-17T22:36:00.006-05:00</published><updated>2009-12-20T17:41:15.666-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='TAG'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='existence of God'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='critcism'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='apologetics'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='presuppositionalism'/><title type='text'>Some Thoughts on TAG</title><content type='html'>...also known as the Transcendental Argument for the existence of God (TAG).  For those unfamiliar, a brief overview of TAs  (Transcendental Arguments) by John Frame can be found &lt;a href="http://www.frame-poythress.org/frame_articles/2005Transcendental.htm"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  With respect to TAG in particular, quoting Frame:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;Traditional apologists have often argued that causality (for example) implies God. A transcendental argument makes a stronger claim: that causality presupposes God. The difference between “implies” and “presupposes,” according to Peter Strawson and Bas Van Fraasen, is that in the latter case God’s existence is implied either by the assertion or the denial of causality. That is, not only does the existence of causality imply the existence of God, but even to deny (intelligibly, if it were possible) the existence of causality would be to invoke a framework of meaning that presupposes God’s existence. Don Collett argues that the Strawson-Van Fraasen kind of presupposition is identical with Van Til’s. So if creation presupposes God, even the denial of creation presupposes him, and the atheist is like the little girl slapping her father while sitting on his lap.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Transcendental arguments are most at home in application against some form of skepticism (though they have other potential applications as well).  Essentially, TAG argues that God is the necessary precondition for certain realities to which even the skeptic must grant legitimacy, such as predication (Van Til), the uniformity of nature or absolute laws of logic (Bahnsen), knowledge (James Anderson), morality (Frame), etc.  Doug Jones has even presented an informal TA for &lt;a href="http://www.the-highway.com/brief_intro.html"&gt;buying milk&lt;/a&gt;, and I've offered one &lt;a href="http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/03/problem-of-evil-3-inductive-problem.html"&gt;elsewhere&lt;/a&gt; based on arithmetic.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;TAG presents analogs to the classical deductive &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;modus ponens&lt;/span&gt; and &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;modus tollens&lt;/span&gt; argument forms, the analog being found in the differences between &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;implication&lt;/span&gt; and &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;presupposition&lt;/span&gt;, as such (cf. Don Collett "Van Til and Transcendental Arguments" in &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;Revelation and Reason&lt;/span&gt; by K. Scott Oliphint).  It is one thing to argue that "P implies Q" and an altogether different thing to argue that "P presupposes Q," though the argument form will appear very similar.  This similarity has at times led to confusion on the part of skeptics and critics in responding to the TAG.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And criticism for TAG abounds.  For a succinct reiteration of Sean Choi's "Fristianity" criticism of Bahnsen's formulation of TAG in the Bahsen-Stein debate, see Mitch Leblanc's article &lt;a href="http://urbanphilosophy.net/philosophy/the-transcendental-argument-for-the-existence-of-god/"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Leblanc also reprises Michael Martin's TANG (Transcendental Argument for the Non-existence of God), which, in my humble opinion, has about as much philosophical value as the corresponding orange-flavored drink has nutritional value (i.e. little-to-none).  For further commentary, see the on-going discussions between Leblanc and Chris Bolt of &lt;a href="http://www.choosinghats.com/"&gt;choosinghats.com&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Richard Dawkins' &lt;a href="http://richarddawkins.net/articles/1794"&gt;website&lt;/a&gt; appears to confuse the presuppositionalists' TAG with Alvin Plantinga's "Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism" (EAAN).  This is understandable, given that the EAAN is a kind of TA, and Richard Dawkins is obviously too&lt;a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFamS4RGE_A"&gt; "busy"&lt;/a&gt; to understand the difference between the two positions, given that he's too busy to debate the world's foremost Christian debater, William Lane Craig.  (If the comments section of Dawkins' website is any sort of indicator of contemporary atheistic and skeptical thought then we can expect the TAG and EAAN to continue to be thoroughly misunderstood and misrepresented.  It's like asking penguins to study quantum mechanics.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Christian apologist John Warwick Montgomery argues that TAG is only capable of proving a robust monotheism, but that it is insufficient to prove Christian theism in particular.  The Fristianity objection mentioned above questions whether or not a hypothetical "Quadrinity" might be equally as sufficient as the Christian Trinity in providing the necessary preconditions for intelligibility.  Others have argued that TAG is really a traditional deductive theistic argument, akin to Thomas Aquinas' "Five Ways" or Anselm's Ontological Argument, and subject to similar criticisms (of the kind where presuppositionalists have tended to agree with skeptics).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I see an immense amount of epistemic and apologetic value in the TAG and have gained a great deal of insight from Van Til, Bahnsen, Frame, et al.  I also think the prevalent criticisms (such as TANG) are pathetic (though the Fristianity objection &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;may&lt;/span&gt; require a slight attenuation of the strong modal TAG claims).  However, I see one glaring issue with TAs in general and with the TAG in particular.  I'm raising this issue in the hopes of progressing and elevating the intramural discussions amongst presuppositionalists regarding TAG, though I recognize that my point (if sound) may provide some amount of apologetic ammunition to the skeptic.  (The fact that the issue I'm about to raise hasn't been brought up by anyone on the skeptical side of the discussion is rather telling regarding the superficiality of interaction there, in my opinion.)  If my criticism misses the mark, I'd be very glad for someone to point it out clearly to me.  In any event, I hope I can contribute in some small way to the "evolution" of presuppositionalism, even if it might only be as cannon fodder.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That being said, it appears to me that the greatest problem with the TAG is that it &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;claims&lt;/span&gt; more than it &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;proves&lt;/span&gt;.  The TAG argues that the metaphysical existence of the Christian God is the necessary precondition for intelligibility, predication, induction, logic, etc.  However, even once TAG is granted as valid, this doesn't establish the necessity of the &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;existence&lt;/span&gt; of God; it only establishes the necessity of&lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt; belief&lt;/span&gt; in God in order to be &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;consistently&lt;/span&gt; rational, scientific, moral, etc.  It is enough to make predication, induction, morality, knowledge, etc. possible if we believe that God exists, or even if it looks for all the world as if God exists, but that doesn't mean God actually exists.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is an often overlooked gap here between belief and reality.  In order to bridge the gap, it is necessary then to argue that to coherently believe in the existence of God we must be able to establish whether or not God exists, establishing a knowledge claim regarding the proposition.  But this is just a kind of verificationism, by which something is only intelligible if we are able to confirm or disconfirm it.  This makes the TAG (and TAs in general) seem rather weak in arguing against skepticism, since it must rest on a kind of verificationism (which could quite very well stand on its own apart from a TA), making it redundant to assert both a verificationist argument and a transcendental argument.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I can rephrase the criticism as a dilemma: if we dispense with the TA's verificationist assumptions then we fall short of refuting skepticism, but if we accept the necessity of verifying God's existence (which is the point of TAG) then the TA is redundant.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I can see a few potential responses to the criticism, but none of them seem too promising with respect to the Van Tillian "transcendental project" as we've known it.  I imagine a similar criticism has been raised at some point somewhere, though I haven't seen it yet.  (Though I recognize that David Hoover raises some &lt;a href="http://www.ibri.org/RRs/RR011/11vanTil.htm"&gt;criticisms&lt;/a&gt; which dovetail with my own.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Maybe I'm missing something?  Let me know what you think.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-9154314235315117642?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/9154314235315117642/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/12/some-thoughts-on-tag.html#comment-form' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/9154314235315117642'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/9154314235315117642'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/12/some-thoughts-on-tag.html' title='Some Thoughts on TAG'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-6248596739737488918</id><published>2009-12-10T18:44:00.003-05:00</published><updated>2009-12-10T18:48:47.795-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='pop culture'/><title type='text'>Vampires and Werewolves and... Mormons?  Oh My!</title><content type='html'>&lt;a href="http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=22-08-024-f"&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is a rather astute synopsis and examination of the popular &lt;em&gt;Twilight&lt;/em&gt; book/film series, which clearly explicates the Mormon worldview woven throughout the story.  Very interesting...&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-6248596739737488918?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/6248596739737488918/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/12/vampires-and-werewolves-and-mormons-oh.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/6248596739737488918'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/6248596739737488918'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/12/vampires-and-werewolves-and-mormons-oh.html' title='Vampires and Werewolves and... Mormons?  Oh My!'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-38690795489027877</id><published>2009-12-04T17:06:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2009-12-04T17:06:56.825-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Cheaters, and Tigers, and Idiots; Oh My!</title><content type='html'>&lt;a href="http://www.davidbahnsen.com/index.php/2009/12/03/cheaters-and-tigers-and-idiots-oh-my/"&gt;Cheaters, and Tigers, and Idiots; Oh My!&lt;/a&gt;  A solid analysis from David Bahnsen on the whole Tiger Woods' Affair affair.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-38690795489027877?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='related' href='http://www.davidbahnsen.com/index.php/2009/12/03/cheaters-and-tigers-and-idiots-oh-my/' title='Cheaters, and Tigers, and Idiots; Oh My!'/><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/38690795489027877/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/12/cheaters-and-tigers-and-idiots-oh-my.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/38690795489027877'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/38690795489027877'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/12/cheaters-and-tigers-and-idiots-oh-my.html' title='Cheaters, and Tigers, and Idiots; Oh My!'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-6745668841863516059</id><published>2009-12-02T22:41:00.001-05:00</published><updated>2009-12-02T22:42:41.246-05:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='suffering'/><title type='text'>Learning from Matt Chandler</title><content type='html'>&lt;a href="http://cp4us.org/2009/12/02/what-i-am-already-learning-from-the-situation-with-matt-chandler/"&gt;"What I Am Already Learning From the Situation With Matt Chandler"&lt;/a&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-6745668841863516059?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/6745668841863516059/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/12/learning-from-matt-chandler.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/6745668841863516059'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/6745668841863516059'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/12/learning-from-matt-chandler.html' title='Learning from Matt Chandler'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-1812018946352619934</id><published>2009-09-14T22:05:00.003-04:00</published><updated>2009-09-14T22:06:57.029-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Posting Hiatus</title><content type='html'>Just to let folks know, I'm currently a full-time husband, full-time father, full-time seminarian and full-time pharmacy technician, which means (for awhile, at least) I will be a zero-time blogger.  Lord willing, I'll throw some more thoughts on here around December.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Blessings!&lt;br /&gt;ZT&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-1812018946352619934?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/1812018946352619934/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/09/posting-hiatus.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1812018946352619934'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1812018946352619934'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/09/posting-hiatus.html' title='Posting Hiatus'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-4845522217603620529</id><published>2009-08-07T21:06:00.003-04:00</published><updated>2009-08-07T21:19:03.605-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='books'/><title type='text'>Gospel-Centered Hermeneutics</title><content type='html'>I am currently reading &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;Gospel Centered Hermeneutics&lt;/span&gt; by Graeme Goldsworthy for my Biblical Hermeneutics course in seminary (reading ahead when you first get the syllabus is not cheating). :)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you have any idea how much Vos and Van Til I had to slog through to reach the sorts of conclusions which Goldsworthy concisely places into the first 90 or so pages of this book?  It’s just not fair.  Anyone who receives and reads a copy of this book early on in their Christian life should have to read it with one black eye just so those of us who didn’t have it available to us won’t feel quite as disadvantaged.  Just kidding.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But seriously, read this book or you deserve a black eye.  Chapters 16-18 are individually worth the price of the book.  With their powers combined, you will be unstoppable.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If I had to pick, here's my favorite quote:&lt;br /&gt;"To those who say that we need the law first - that is, we need to perceive our problem before we will flee to God for grace, we must reply that such an assertion assumes the ability without grace to understand the law as natural law.  The gospel is the clearest explication of the law, both in its perfect fulfillment and in the effects of its being broken." -p.226&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-4845522217603620529?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/4845522217603620529/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/08/gospel-centered-hermeneutics.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/4845522217603620529'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/4845522217603620529'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/08/gospel-centered-hermeneutics.html' title='Gospel-Centered Hermeneutics'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-1893342857562020272</id><published>2009-07-26T12:36:00.003-04:00</published><updated>2009-07-28T14:58:27.537-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='politics'/><title type='text'>Equal Rights</title><content type='html'>Sexual orientation presupposes a "sex" which one "orients."  In other words, being a homosexual or a heterosexual is first predicated on whether a person is biologically male or female.  This is as simple, straightforward and uncontroversial a fact as stating that eating requires a mouth and food.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, this simple fact presents a massive problem to those who advocate for "homosexual marriage" rights on the basis of an "equal rights" platform.  The fact is that a homosexual man and a heterosexual man &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;have&lt;/span&gt; equal marriage rights: a homosexual man can marry any woman who will marry him, just like any other man (and vice versa with respect to homosexual women).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This wipes away any argument for "homosexual marriage" legislation based upon equality, and it removes any argument based upon analogy to women's suffrage or the abolition of slavery (since those issues stemmed from human rights being withheld from certain humans based upon biological sexuality or genetic ethnicity).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now a case for "homosexual marriage" legislation could be based upon other suppositions, and ought to be weighed and considered on the merits of those arguments (though "equal rights" appears to be the most common argument currently).  However, the prevailing equal rights assertions and analogies used by advocates of "homosexual marriage" are severely lacking, as demonstrated above.  One cannot be a homosexual without first being a man or woman and all men and women in the western world have equal marriage rights.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The next time you hear someone offering an equal rights-based argument for "homosexual marriage," inform them that homosexuals do have equal marriage rights.  Then ask them what they think the basis is for granting special "marriage" rights to homosexuals.  This will at least give the opportunity for the conversation to advance a bit beyond the general sloganeering of the contemporary debate.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-1893342857562020272?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/1893342857562020272/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/equal-rights.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1893342857562020272'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1893342857562020272'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/equal-rights.html' title='Equal Rights'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-3814160619981626879</id><published>2009-07-23T08:18:00.001-04:00</published><updated>2009-07-23T08:20:37.451-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='politics'/><title type='text'>Doug Wilson on Christian Entitlement (aka Sloth)</title><content type='html'>&lt;a href="http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&amp;CategoryID=1&amp;BlogID=6765"&gt;Just One More Piglet&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&amp;CategoryID=1&amp;BlogID=6768"&gt;Part Deux&lt;/a&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-3814160619981626879?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/3814160619981626879/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/doug-wilson-on-christian-entitlement.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/3814160619981626879'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/3814160619981626879'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/doug-wilson-on-christian-entitlement.html' title='Doug Wilson on Christian Entitlement (aka Sloth)'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-5163281948920552814</id><published>2009-07-17T23:40:00.005-04:00</published><updated>2009-07-18T03:47:04.762-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='covenant theology'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='critcism'/><title type='text'>Good and Necessary Consequence</title><content type='html'>&lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;"The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture..." -1647 Westminster Confession of Faith 1:6&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;"The sum total of God's revelation concerning all things essential to His own glory, and to the salvation and faith and life of men, is either explicitly set down or implicitly contained in the Holy Scripture." -1689 2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 1:6&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There have been a few misologists along the way who have criticized the inclusion of the "implication" or "consequence" clauses in the WCF and 2LBCF (quoted above).  An example could be found &lt;a href="http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/8890/grace/df_reformed.html"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, in a sermon by Don Fortner.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In his criticism of the quoted clauses Pastor Fortner states, "If I cannot show you where a thing is stated in Holy Scripture, I have no right to believe it, preach it, or compel you to believe it."  Of course, this sentence is nowhere stated in Holy Scripture, but is something which Pastor Fortner deduced by implication (which I would assume he thought was of good, possibly even necessary, consequence) from the statements of Rev. 22:18-19, 2 Tim. 3:16, etc.  The irony of the logical gyrations of those who are opposed to logic always makes for good entertainment.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These sorts of statements sound pious at first, because they propose a "high view of Scripture," especially in contrast to "extra-biblical statements," such as creeds, confessions, sermons... pretty much everything else.  However, they belie a certain naivete about the actual process of the interpretation of Scripture, which then extends itself into a denial of "good and necessary" things.  Like logic, a necessary part of interpretation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The WCF speaks of deduction by good and necessary consequence from the expressions of Scripture and the 2LBCF speaks of the explicit and implicit statements of Scripture.  (I'm going to stipulate that the various terminology used in the two confessions have the same concept at heart here.)  What are we to make of these statements?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think the authors may have meant by the phrase "good and necessary consequence" the simple distinction between the truth of the premises taken from Scripture ("good" interpretation) and the validity (or inductive strength) of the implication ("necessary" inference).  However, I may be wrong on this point and would be glad to hear other perspectives on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If we have a conclusion of a valid argument deduced from true premises taken from the expressions of Scripture, then we can clearly say that this implication is true.  Where we run into problems is with invalid (or inductively weak) argument forms or wrong interpretations giving untrue premises.  Or the common practice of waving our magic "good and necessary consequence" wand to produce any doctrine which we like or which our favorite Puritan liked, apart from any explicit Scriptural premises or clear argumentation of any kind.  In those cases we wind up with doctrines which certain people think are "good," but which are by no means demonstrably "necessary."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Deducing doctrines out of "good and necessary consequence" involves familiarity with valid logical forms (such as modus tollens, modus ponens, etc.) and with the principles of biblical exegesis, so that we can obtain true premises and make valid inferences.  Also, a good external check on this process is to use the &lt;a href="http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/qna/analogyfaith.html"&gt;analogy of faith&lt;/a&gt; to determine if a conclusion contradicts a clear, explicit, multiply-attested doctrine of Scripture (i.e. a doctrine with a "strong analogy of faith.")&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some might then propose that deductions of "good and necessary consequence" ought to be placed on a different level than the explicit statements of Scripture with regards to reliability, since these deductions use fallible human logic.  This objection suffers from the same naivete which I mentioned above regarding the role of logic in biblical interpretation.  Rightly interpreted biblical expressions will entail by valid deduction necessary consequences which are no more and no less true than their premises.  How can we posit two separate levels or orders of truth?  Is a valid conclusion somehow less true than its true premises?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The problem, as I already alluded to, is not with the concept of "good and necessary consequence" as such, but with its common use (or perhaps I should say &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;abuse&lt;/span&gt;) in justifying whatever pet doctrines one prefers without providing any cogent argumentation.  Whenever certain traditionally cherished beliefs are called into question in light of a paucity of biblical data in favor of them, the phrase "good and necessary consequence" becomes the escape clause  for maintaining one's traditions &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;contra Scriptura&lt;/span&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Since we already have the WCF and 2LBCF in our purview, let's take an example from Covenant Theology.  Covenant Theology proposes a framework of three extra-biblical covenants derived by "good and necessary consequence": the eternal, intra-Trinitarian &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_of_works#Covenant_of_redemption"&gt;Covenant of Redemption&lt;/a&gt;, the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_of_works#Covenant_of_works"&gt;Covenant of Works&lt;/a&gt;, which is the context for the single &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_of_works#Covenant_of_grace"&gt;Covenant of Grace&lt;/a&gt; with its multiple administrations throughout redemptive history (cf. WCF Ch. 7, 2LBCF Ch. 7).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;While my familiarity with the literature on Covenant Theology is by no means exhaustive, I have never seen a valid formal argument with true premises presented for any of the three covenants mentioned above (or even an attempt at such argumentation).  If anyone can point me to an example of such an argument I'd be grateful.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Most of the literature which I've seen presupposes the doctrines as part of Covenant Theology's confessional framework and interprets Scripture in such a way as to show that it comports with those presuppositions.  However, demonstrating that certain (even many) biblical statements can comport with a presupposition is not enough to establish a presupposition as biblical.  It must be "explicitly set down or implicitly contained in the Holy Scripture."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And the fact is that when Scripture speaks of the various biblical covenants (plural), it speaks of them as separate covenants with different administrations, not a single, eternal covenant with multiple administrations (cf. Jer. 31, Heb. 8-9).  This explicit language of Scripture carries a far stronger analogy of faith than the presupposition of an eternal Covenant of Grace, especially in absence of any demonstration of the doctrine's basis as a "good and necessary consequence."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(It is, in my humble opinion, a very unfortunate thing that an extra-biblical doctrine with dubious deductive validity (and which contradicts a doctrine with a strong, explicit analogy of faith) holds the position of one of the most basic presuppositions in Covenant Theology's theory of redemptive history.   It is also unfortunate that the resultant theory of redemptive history then functions as a systematic hermeneutical framework as well, compressing the full-orbed unity and diversity of the biblical covenants into a single covenant.  This results in some instances in an implicit Judaizing effect on Covenant Theologians' views of the sacraments, law, ethics and sanctification, emphasizing Moses to the detriment of Christ and creating a forced conception of equivalent, rather than typological, continuity between the covenants.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now calling this much-cherished, confessionally-Reformed tradition of the basic presuppositions of Covenant Theology into question will probably be as warmly received in certain circles as up-ending tables in the temple was by those whose livelihood depended on that income.  I won't be responding in this post to all the conceivable objections and counter-arguments to what I've presented.  I'll leave that to the comments, if anyone takes an interest in such a discussion.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let me say briefly, however, that I am not advocating Dispensationalism as an alternative to Covenant Theology.  With respect to a framework of redemptive history, I would much prefer a modified form of Covenant Theology, something largely akin to what has been called &lt;a href="http://newcovenanttheology.org/"&gt;New Covenant Theology&lt;/a&gt;, or even the formulations of the &lt;a href="http://www.reformedreader.org/ccc/1646lbc.htm"&gt;1646 1st London Baptist Confession of Faith&lt;/a&gt;, which does not adopt any doctrines of "unnecessary consequence" and appropriately emphasizes the New Covenant and the law of Christ, instead of the old covenant and the law of Moses.  Also, the various covenants of Scripture all find points of unity and continuity in that they are all covenants initiated by a holy, gracious, eternal God, rather than being ectypes of an archetypal eternal covenant.  Christ is &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;the&lt;/span&gt; archetype and his New Covenant is &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;the&lt;/span&gt; eternal covenant.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Finally, I do think it is advisable to keep our theories of redemptive history distinct from our hermeneutical systems in as much as this is possible, so that the text might inform our theory rather than the opposite.  In this way we can truly affirm &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;Semper Reformanda&lt;/span&gt; and &lt;span style="font-style:italic;"&gt;solo Christo&lt;/span&gt; in the 21st century, in accordance with the eternal Scriptures.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-5163281948920552814?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/5163281948920552814/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/good-and-necessary-consequence.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/5163281948920552814'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/5163281948920552814'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/good-and-necessary-consequence.html' title='Good and Necessary Consequence'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-1466769067640255724</id><published>2009-07-17T19:52:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2009-07-17T19:54:35.322-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Calvinism'/><title type='text'>Zen Calvinism</title><content type='html'>"So what is Zen-Calvinism? Like the Buddhist movement which shares the same name, Zen-Calvinism is a school of religious thought which allows its adherents to live at one with the world, untroubled in any ultimate sense by the slings and arrows which life throws their way. It is also counter-cultural and thus represents a deeply alternative lifestyle. Let me elaborate a little on this counter-cultural mentality.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At the heart of Zen-Calvinism is the belief that all human beings are morally flawed, unlike the worldviews projected by the celebrity-saturated commercial culture of the modern West...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Zen-Calvinists also accept that they are themselves no better than anyone else; and, understanding their own tendencies to treat everyone else in a less-than-perfect fashion, they will not be surprised when they are repaid in kind. Zen-Calvinists are at one with the depravity of the fallen universe; they expect to be treated as they know they have treated others...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The final element of Zen-Calvinism is perhaps the most important: the realization that all evil has been subverted for the greater good purposes of the God who loves hi church. If the supreme crime of human history – the judicial murder of the very Son of God – can be used for the greatest good, then any other crime, sin or moral failing can also be frustrated and turned to good account. And that applies not just to the loutish and corrupt behaviour of others; it applies supremely to that of the Zen-Calvinist who reflects upon these things..."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.reformation21.org/counterpoints/post-44.php&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-1466769067640255724?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='related' href='http://www.reformation21.org/counterpoints/post-44.php' title='Zen Calvinism'/><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/1466769067640255724/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/zen-calvinism.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1466769067640255724'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/1466769067640255724'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/zen-calvinism.html' title='Zen Calvinism'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-7188839613080046707</id><published>2009-07-15T09:52:00.004-04:00</published><updated>2009-07-15T09:57:48.741-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='covenant theology'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='baptism'/><title type='text'>Argument Against Classical Covenant Theology</title><content type='html'>Major Premise: 1. If Covenant Theology is true (A), then its doctrines will be expressed or implied in Scripture (B).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1a. CT contains a doctrine that baptism corresponds directly with circumcision (both being given to infants as signs of the covenant), albeit with minor administrative adjustments (baptizing infant males and females, whereas circumcision was limited to males, etc.).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1b. This doctrine rests heavily on the doctrine that the Abrahamic and the New Covenant are the same, single eternal Covenant of Grace in different administrations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Minor Premise: 2. Even in the most conspicuous places (Acts 15, Col. 2) Scripture nowhere expresses or implies doctrines (1a) and (1b). (~B)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2a. Scripture presents a typological relationship between circumcision and baptism, where the emphasis on the material type (circumcision) is replaced by the emphasis on the spiritual substance (regeneration) (Col. 2), and baptism is linked to union with Christ (Rom. 6), which is by rebirth, not physical birth.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2b. The “one covenant – multiple administrations” supposition (1b) on which (1a) rests is also in contradiction with the plain teaching of Scripture regarding multiple covenants with multiple respective administrations (Jer. 31, Heb. 8-9), each a progressively-revealed, prophetically-typological shadow of the one, eternal covenant in Christ (the New Covenant).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Conclusion: 3. Therefore (~A) CT is false (or "not true," for the strict logicians out there) by modus tollens.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If A, then B.&lt;br /&gt;Not B.&lt;br /&gt;Therefore Not A.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-7188839613080046707?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/7188839613080046707/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/argument-against-classical-covenant.html#comment-form' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/7188839613080046707'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/7188839613080046707'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/argument-against-classical-covenant.html' title='Argument Against Classical Covenant Theology'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-7451717945905649449</id><published>2009-07-06T10:03:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2009-07-06T10:03:17.877-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Triablogue: The noseeum assumption</title><content type='html'>Some more interesting thoughts on The Problem of Evil from Steve Hays: &lt;a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2009/07/noseeum-assumption.html"&gt;Triablogue: The noseeum assumption&lt;/a&gt;  This post particularly relates to the Inductive Problem of Evil.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/18018173-7451717945905649449?l=zaothanatoo.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='related' href='http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2009/07/noseeum-assumption.html' title='Triablogue: The noseeum assumption'/><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/feeds/7451717945905649449/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/triablogue-noseeum-assumption.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/7451717945905649449'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/18018173/posts/default/7451717945905649449'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://zaothanatoo.blogspot.com/2009/07/triablogue-noseeum-assumption.html' title='Triablogue: The noseeum assumption'/><author><name>Zao Thanatoo</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/07773282658698389572</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18018173.post-8303912994219692830</id><published>2009-06-24T21:43:00.004-04:00</published><updated>2009-06-24T21:50:54.270-04:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='sermons'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='justification'/><title type='text'>Judgment and Justification</title><content type='html'>This is a manuscript from a sermon preached at the &lt;a href="http://ecfnet.org/"&gt;Evangelical Church of Fairport&lt;/a&gt; this evening.  I hope that you are as blessed in the reading as I was in the preparation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Romans 2:1-16; 1 Cor. 3:11-15; Matt. 25:31-46&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Romans 2:6, "He will render to each one according to his works..."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Everything you do is permanent.  This is a fact as basic as our own existence.  The fact that you were here at church at 7PM on June 24, 2009 is now irreversible.  That is what you were doing and it will forever be the case that that is what you were doing.  Yes, I’m aware of the invention of the eraser.  But erasing something which you wrote an hour ago does not change the fact that you were writing it an hour ago.  Cover-ups, apologies, confessions, self-delusion, erasures, reparations, none of these things removes the permanency of our every action at every moment in our lives.  Everything you do is permanent and you are responsible for everything you do.&lt;br /&gt;And that is the teaching of our text: “He will render to each one according to his works.”  Everything that you do is permanent and everything that you do is done before the face of God, who will render to each one according to his works.  Yes, you, Christian, you will be judged according to your works.  Christian, atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, man, woman, child, we will all be judged according to our works, to what we have thought, said and done in this life.  “To those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;According to the gospel, on that day of final judgment God will judge the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.  The judgment will be according to works and it will be public and it will be exhaustive.  No secret thought or motivation left unpunished or unrewarded.  I will see your sins… and you will see mine.  I will see how you really thought about me and why you have done the things you have done.  I will see how you’ve thought about my wife.  And you will be called upon to give an answer for every careless word spoken, every lustful glance, every self-centered motive, every rebellious action.  If the idea of the rest of us seeing publicly all of the shameful things you have thought, said and done terrifies you, then that is a legitimate response.  It is legitimate, but not at all adequate.  How lowly we must think of the God who sees and knows all, how little we must think of the judge with whom we have to deal, to be terrified at the idea of other mere men and women observing our wickedness and self-righteousness, but not terrified enough to stop ourselves from sinning before the face of God!  “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Mt. 10:28)  “Search me, O God, and know my heart! Try me and know my thoughts! And see if there be any grievous way in me…” (Ps. 139:23)  He will.  Oh yes, he will.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Objections to this clear doctrine of Scripture abound, from both professing Christians and unbelievers.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The unbeliever objects to the entire idea of judgment, of punishment, of hell on many different levels.  Atheist journalist Christopher Hitchens decries the concept of “thought-crimes” held against us by what he calls a “voyeuristic deity.”  Another objection is that even if certain people do deserve punishment in certain cases, such as Hitler or Pol Pot, there is still no reason for that punishment to be everlasting, unceasing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Professing Christian will object that the Bible says that the sins of believers are covered (Ps. 32:1), washed away (Ps. 51:2), cast into the depth of the sea (Mic. 7:19), never to be remembered by God (Isa. 43:25).  That we are justified by faith alone.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Believers, allow me to make clear to you at the outset that the degree to which you are resistant to this biblical doctrine of universal judgment according to works is the degree to which you have misunderstood the doctrine of justification.  It is the degree to which antinomianism or lawlessness has eclipsed the gospel of Christ in your understanding.  And the degree to which you feel natural comfort in the face of this troubling doctrine is the degree to which legalism has surpassed Christ in your heart.  It is my hope that before we are through this evening that the gospel of grace will be set forth clearly on this question of the final judgment, so that you can be freed from lawlessness and legalism, the two “thieves” between which the gospel of Christ is perennially “crucified.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Tonight, I will respond briefly to the objections of believer and unbeliever by attempting to bring the full weight of the Scripture to bear upon the concepts of judgment and justification.  Then we will look at three different, but common, formulations of justification: two of them are false and one is true.  Which of them you believe is something for which you are permanently responsible.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So Christopher Hitchens accuses God of being a cosmic voyeur and that the idea that God will judge us for our thoughts is, to him, repulsive.  Like many of the assertions of the so-called “New Atheists,” this barely deserves a response.  It’s not an argument, so it can’t really be refuted.  If he and I were to have a discussion or debate on the matter, and he were to raise this objection I might simply reply, “Yeah, well, that’s just, like, your opinion, dude.”  Hitchens, like many atheists, gets thing precisely backwards, assuming that he is the judge and God is the one on trial. Nothing could be further out of touch with reality.  However, his assertion does raise the question, why does God judge even the secrets of men?  After all, no court on earth does such a thing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The answer is a simple one.  Our distinction between public and private sins does not exist for God.  He is everywhere present and all-knowing.  Every instant he is everywhere, seeing and evaluating everything.  We live every moment of our lives as though performed on a stage before him.  "And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give an account" (Heb. 4:13).  As I said, everything you do is permanent and you are responsible for everything you do.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;God will judge men's thoughts - " Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God." (1 Cor. 4:5); He will judge men’s words - " I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,  for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Mt. 12:36-37); and he will judge men’s deeds - "And then will (Christ) declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" (Mt. 7:23). “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.  For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’" (Mt. 25:41-43).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The secret things will be judged because perfect justice demands it.  Some of the most heinously wicked acts in all of history have been done in secret.  All sins will be laid bare. Secret offenses will be brought into judgment. This includes the hidden motives of every action; for we may do that which is right from a wrong motive, and so the deed may be evil in the sight of God, though it seems right in the sight of others.  The secret things are of the very essence of our actions. Whether or not an action is good or bad very much depends on the motives behind it. It may seem good, but the motive may tarnish it; and so, if God did not judge the secret part of the action he would not judge righteously.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Think what it will be to have your motives all brought to light, to have it proven that you were godly for the sake of gain, that you were generous as a mere exhibition, or zealous simply for the love of praise, that you spoke carefully in public to maintain a good reputation, but that all the while everything was done for self, and self only.  Indeed, on that day God will reveal all secrets, even secrets that were secrets to the sinners themselves, for there is sin in us which we have never seen, and iniquity in us which we have never yet discovered.  We have managed for our own comfort's sake to blind our eyes somewhat, and we take care to look away from the things about ourselves which it is inconvenient to see; but we shall be compelled to see everything in that day, when the Lord judges the secrets of men. The deeds of the night. The sins hidden behind closed doors. Even sins hidden from husband or wife. If a professing Christian is living in dishonesty, untruthfulness, fornication, adultery, uncleanness or idolatry it will all be made known on that day. For "the sins of some men are conspicuous, going before them to judgment, but the sins of others appear later (or trail behind them NIV)." (1 Tim. 5:24). All hypocrisy will come to an end on that day. Hypocrites will have an eternity to ponder their foolishness and shame.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is also true that some of the most selflessly loving acts are performed in secret.  All the sacrifices, good deeds and secret works done on behalf of Christ will receive a reward. The greatest deeds that God delights in are those that are done by his servants when they have shut the door and are alone with him; when they have no other motive but to please him; when they intentionally avoid publicity, choosing the final praise of God over the immediate praise of men; when the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing.  It would be an injustice if such deeds were left out at the final judgment.  This fact should be a great incentive for kingdom work. We strive for righteousness and make our bodies living sacrifices not to receive the praise of men but to hear the words of our precious Savior, "Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." (Mt. 25:34). The wise and diligent Christian lays up treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. (Mt. 6:20). The fervent believer runs the race so that he may obtain a prize (1 Cor. 9:24). The faithful servant will receive an imperishable crown (1 Cor. 9:25). What is done for Christ will last forever. "Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward." (2 Jn. 8). Be diligent. Run the race. Fight the good fight, for your labors in Christ are never in vain. You will receive a reward that can never perish or be taken away when our king returns.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now Scripture testifies that the final judgment is a public event.  Jesus will return in glory surrounded by the host of heaven. As the judge he will summon all mankind (Mt. 25:32) and the dead will arise at His call (Jn 5:28-29), coming forth from their graves and even the oceans will give up the dead within them (Rev. 20:13). God has ordained the final day to be public for several reasons. &lt;br /&gt;First, its public nature will glorify Christ. Our Lord who was publicly humiliated, condemned as a criminal and crucified will be publicly exalted and vindicated before the whole human race. Every mouth will be stopped and every knee will bow before Him. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Second, God has decreed that the secrets of men whether good or evil will be exposed in a very public manner. Every sinner will hear the story of his wicked life published to his everlasting shame. The public nature of the event is obviously intended to magnify the guilt, shame and dread of the occasion. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Third, the public nature of the event is also a vindication of the saints. Not only will God’s people witness the exposure and condemnation of their enemies and persecutors; the persecutors of faithful Christians, the skeptics and mockers of the truth, will witness the gracious exaltation of believers for the fruits of faith, the good works done in the body. It is a day when the tables are turned, when the humble shall be exalted, the meek shall inherit the earth and the wicked, the proud, and the boastful shall be abased. All who laughed at the truth will be publicly cast into hell.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Human history has a terminus point, a time of reckoning. God permitted a long age of rebellion. For thousands of years God has showed patience and longsuffering to a wicked world. He has blessed the wicked with sunshine, rain, food and delights of every kind (beautiful beaches, lovely sunsets, family, friends, a good night’s sleep, great food, fun vacations, laughter and pleasure). But a day is coming when all rebellion will be crushed. For the unrepentant this life is the closest thing to heaven they will ever experience. There has been a long day for sinning; therefore, God has ordained a special day for judgment. The definitive victory over evil that Christ achieved at the cross becomes a perfected reality on that day when the sheep are forever separated from the goats.  “Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.” (Rom. 2:4-5)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The final judgment resolves the many injustices that occur in this world that have not been rectified on earth. There are wicked people who live and die in the lap of luxury. There are murderers, rapists and thieves who are never caught, exposed and punished for their crimes. There are dictators who oppress the poor, torture and murder innocent people, and yet live in palaces and die at a ripe old age. There are many people who have been severely wronged and have not experienced vindication, closure or justice in this life. There are millions of God’s children who have been slandered, beaten, imprisoned and even murdered for their faith. Will a righteous and holy God allow such inequities to go unpunished? Will the God of perfect justice allow injustice to continue interminably in His universe? Will the Lord allow evil people to get away with their sins and crimes? God's holy nature requires that all injustices be resolved. God displays His perfect justice by publicly exposing all sins and crimes, by publicly declaring the guilt of the offending parties and by publicly meting out the sentence of condemnation. There is a day of perfect justice and closure because God's nature demands it. There are no ethical loose ends in Christ's kingdom.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Every mother and every father of every little boy and every little girl kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery will finally witness the perfect wrath of Almighty God poured out in full fury on all those guilty of such wickedness, from the civil magistrate who fails, out of laziness, incompetence or bribery in his duties to enforce the law and protect the most helpless, to those who buy and sell and trade in the rape of the most innocent among us.  Every mouth will be stopped and every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, in heaven and on earth and, yes, even under the earth on that great and terrible day of the Lord’s judgment.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And you and I will be judged according to how we have responded or not responded to such tragedies.  “‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’  ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to (Christ).’” (Mt. 25:44-45)  Oh Lord forgive us for endlessly quibbling over the logical order of the divine decrees or the drawing lines of division among ourselves over difference between a universally sufficient atonement which is particular in scope and a universally accomplished atonement which is particular in its application while our children and our neighbor’s children are used like Kleenex and thrown away, while there are still places on this planet where the glorious name of Christ has never been heard.  Oh Lord forgive us… and help us to obey. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Everything you do is permanent and you are responsible for everything you do.  There must be and there will be a day when God will judge the world and bring an end to all rebellion against Himself forever.  Yes, I said that at the final judgment God will put an end to all sin and rebellion against Himself forever.  Now, the second objection of the unbeliever which I mentioned before was against the eternality of punishment in hell.  How can it be just or fair or reasonable to punish a crime forever?  It is common today to offer as a response to this objection the notion that sinners in hell continue to sin forever, so they continue to be punished forever.  As if just as they would be finishing the sentence for their earlier sins they lie or steal something and their sentence is extended.  It’s as if God wishes that He could let everyone out of hell, but they just won’t stop disobeying Him.  The only problem with this response is that there isn’t an ounce of biblical support for the idea; in fact, every bit of evidence contradicts it.  “At the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Phil. 2:10)  On the last day, God will be glorified in you or He will be glorified on you; His justice and His mercy will both reveal His glory so clearly that even those suffering in hell are compelled to remorsefully confess the truth.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No, hell is eternal because everything you do is permanent and you are responsible for everything you do.  Just because you are no longer ashamed by the guilt of your past sins doesn’t remove your guilt for committing them.  The passage of time doesn’t remove guilt.  The punishment in hell is varied in severity, since “that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.  But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.” (Lk 12:47-48).  But the punishment received according to the works you have done will continue so long as your guilt remains.  And your guilt is permanent.  “Because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.” (Rom. 2:5)  Hell is everlasting because your guilt is everlasting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So can permanent, everlasting guilt be removed?  The answer to this question is something into which angels long to look.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some turn to the statements of the immediate context of our text for the answer, “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.” (Rom. 2:13)  “Those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.’ (Rom. 2:7)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“They who pervert this passage for the purpose of building up justification by works, deserve most fully to be laughed at even by children.” –John Calvin, Commentary on Romans 2&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Every philosophy of life, every worldview, no matter how mismatched and cobbled together or sophisticated and self-consistent, has a theory of salvation, which contains a doctrine of justification, a way that humanity can respond to the prescribed problems of the human condition, of dealing with guilt.  The President tells us that we can be saved from the apocalyptic judgment of global warming by minimizing our carbon footprint and recycling (among other things).  The Buddha told us that we can be freed from the wheel of reincarnation by attaining self-awakening through the Noble 8-Fold Path of having the right view, intention, speech, action livelihood, effort, mindfulness, and concentration which lead to attaining right knowledge and right liberation.  These different worldviews contain different doctrines of justification, different ways for dealing with human guilt and failure.  Essentially, one answer offered is that we can make up for our guilt by believing and doing the right things.  Justification = Faith + Works.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;June 28, 2009 marks the completion of the Anno Paulino or the Pauline Year, which the Pope instituted in honor of the 2000th anniversary of the apostle’s birth.  In the papal decree Urbis et Orbis it states: “The gift of Indulgences which the Roman Pontiff offers to the universal Church, truly smoothes the way to attaining a supreme degree of inner purification which, while honoring the Blessed Apostle Paul, exalts the supernatural life in the hearts of the faithful and gently encourages them to do good deeds…  Each and every truly repentant individual member of the Christian faithful, duly absolved through the Sacrament of Reconciliation and restored with Holy Communion, who devoutly makes a pilgrimage to the Papal Basilica of St. Paul on the Ostian Way and who prays for the Supreme Pontiff's intentions, will be granted the Plenary Indulgence from temporal punishment for his/her sins, once sacramental forgiveness and pardon for any shortcomings has been obtained.  The Christian faithful may benefit from the Plenary Indulgence both for themselves and for the deceased, as many times as they fulfill the required conditions but without prejudice to the norm stipulating that the Plenary Indulgence may be obtained only once a day.” &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Best known for his rich proclamation of free grace and severe condemnation of any church that would preach a different gospel, Paul’s birth being celebrated with indulgences is the irony of the century.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Biblically, we can place these varied but similar perspectives in one of two categories: in its narrower and more stringent form we can categorize it as Legalism, that we are justified by our obedience to a strict code of belief and ethics.  In its more general, liberal form we can call it Moralism, which does not require strict adherence to a law of some sort, but general adherence to moral principles of one kind or another.  Moralism is just Legalism’s lazy little brother.&lt;br /&gt;The problems for the Legalist and the Moralist are two-fold.  The first problem is that obedience to law and morality in one instance does not remove the permanent guilt for disobedience in any other instance.  There is no justification for stealing a candy bar earned by offering to mow your neighbor’s lawn.  That idea is just sheer nonsense.  The idea that there is a balance on one side of which are weighed your good deeds and the other of which weighs your failures is wrong because it fundamentally misunderstands the nature of guilt and responsibility.  Doing good in one instance cannot negate doing evil in another instance, even if it mitigates the consequences of evil, since everything you do is permanent.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The second problem is that fulfilling your duty to obey the law does not earn you any rewards, and obeying God’s law is our duty.  Luke 17:7-10, “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?  Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?  Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?  So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”  Since there is no merit in performing one’s duty and only guilt is incurred by failing to do so, the scale of good would be empty and the scale of evil would be full.  Let’s be perfectly clear that there is no justification in that.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Legalism and Moralism are forms of self-justification which rely on a goodness, a righteousness inside of ourselves where only guilt and sin exist.  It is self-delusional to look to the source of a problem in the hope of finding the solution to that problem.  “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.” (Mt. 7:18)  Permanent guilt is not removed by obeying the law, unless it is obeyed perfectly.  And it has become an almost cliché truism to recognize that “nobody’s perfect.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In fact, the statement “nobody’s perfect” exemplifies the basis for another, opposite theory of justification commonly held today.  I naively used to think that when people said “nobody’s perfect” that this was a kind of tacit acknowledgement of the biblical doctrine of original sin, that everyone is sinful by nature and choice.  However, as I began to ask deeper questions and listen more intently to what people were saying I realized I was completely wrong.  “Nobody’s perfect” is used to justify nearly any infidelity, even when recognized as wrong, by an appeal to the universal failures of others.  In fact, if you confront someone about a specific instance of wrongdoing “nobody’s perfect” is often used very basically as a “you too” deflection (tu quoque), but it is still more complicated than that.  When confronted with our own guilt the tendency is to “squirm” or deflect, to seek to justify ourselves.  This self-justification, oddly enough, often comes through an appeal to universal imperfection: “yeah, well, nobody’s perfect.”  “Nobody’s perfect” becomes the justification for our own sinfulness, rather than the grace of Christ.  “Nobody’s perfect” becomes the practical basis for doing whatever we like as though we are in fact perfect, since our wrongs aren’t any wronger than anyone else’s.  “Nobody’s perfect” is not a tacit acceptance of Original Sin, it is a practical way of shifting responsibility so that we no longer consider ourselves guilty when staring in the face of our own guilt.  If “nobody’s perfect” then, simply by adjusting our ethical standard to match the level of our ethical failure, then it is as if everybody is perfect, which is sheer relativism.  “Nobody’s perfect” really means “nobody can judge me.”  If everyone is guilty, then nobody is guilty; or so the logic goes.  It’s not an admission of guilt.  We can place this view of justification into the categories of Antinomianism or Lawlessness and the category of Relativism.  It is a form of self-justification which looks outside of us to the common guilt of others as the basis for our justification.  It seeks to lower the standard, since if everybody breaks the law, then the law must be wrong.  If you want to see a great example of this kind of relativistic, lawless self-justification, watch the documentary “Bigger Stronger Faster.”  The premise is a film about the use of performance enhancing drugs in American culture, particularly in sports; but it becomes an interesting exercise in self-justification and rationalization.  Well, worth the rental.  Rated PG-13.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As I said, Legalism and Lawlessness are the “two thieves” between which the Gospel is crucified.  Legalism and Moralism look inside of us for a righteousness that isn’t there while Lawlessness and Relativism look outside of ourselves in order to declare our own comparative righteousness based on the fact of universal guilt.  This is just spiritual alchemy.  No amount of special pleading will turn your own guilt or your neighbor’s guilt into righteousness when God judges the secrets of men.  No amount of self-deception will remove your guilt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, keep clear in your mind that there are Christianized forms of Legalism and Moralism, which give lip-service to the idea of being justified by faith in Christ, while still practically looking inside one’s self for the righteousness of doctrinal orthodoxy or church attendance or adherence to extra-biblical standards of goodness as the basis for God’s favor.  “Run, John, run.  The law commands, but gives me neither feet nor hands.  Yet sweeter news the gospel brings.  It bids me fly and gives me wing.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And there are also Christianized forms of Lawlessness and Relativism which gives lip-service to the idea of seeking an “alien righteousness” outside of ourselves in Christ, but uses the idea of that righteousness as the basis for continuing to love sin, to worship and serve the creature rather than the Creator.  “Free from the law, Oh blessed condition.  I can sin as I please and still have remission.”  I don’t think it’s too harsh to say that someone who views being rescued from a burning building as a good reason to rush back into the building is stupid.  Lawlessness is stupid.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here’s a quick check for believers: Do you tend to justify yourself?  When your co-workers or parents or spouse or friends confront you about a mistake or a failure or a sin, do you look for ways to excuse yourself or do you live a life of repentance, as if your justification for all of your life is entirely outside of yourself in Christ alone?  If in even the simple, basic interactions of daily life you seek to justify yourself, what evidence is there in you that would lead anyone to conclude that you have been justified in Christ alone?  Live and breathe and laugh and weep and suffer and die as if you can only ever be justified in Christ alone.  And when confronted with your failures, don’t justify yourself; repent and be justified in Christ.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So, having demonstrated the errors of justification by legalism or lawlessness we return to the question: can permanent, everlasting guilt be removed?  Not easily.  In fact, with man this is impossible.  However, with God all things are possible.&lt;br /&gt;Proverbs 17:15 says that “He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord.”  So how does God justify the wicked (Rom. 4:5) and condemn Christ the righteous (Is. 53:6) without being an abomination to Himself?  How does God impute evil to a sinless man, let criminals go free, even graciously rewarding them, and still be just and righteous?  How can the cross on which Christ died ever be considered justice, rather than an abomination?&lt;br /&gt;The answer lies in the implications of the following statement: Christ was completely God and completely human, perfectly sinless.  Theologians commonly make the distinction between Christ’s active obedience (His life lived in perfect righteousness, fully obeying the commands of God in all things at all times) and His passive obedience (submitting Himself to the shame and agony of death on a cross at the hands of wicked men).  It is commonly recognized that in the totality of Christ’s obedience is the foundation of the complete righteousness imputed to sinners.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Christ’s active obedience necessarily entails obeying the two greatest commandments of God: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul an
